1 Peter 3:18-20 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

Somebody wants it explained, but even I'm slightly confused..

 

The spirits in prison are the demons who harassed Christ while he was performing miracles on earth. When Christ was raised as a spirit being, he was in their 'universe', or presence. He preached to them a warning, no doubt, to desist from sinning, and show repentance, and possibly in the future receive a lighter judgment. This is discussed partly by Paul at 1 Cor. 6:3..."....we will judge angels..." Not we will 'condemn' angels....so just as Jesus resurrects the dead, and makes a judgment as to whether they are to be allowed to live on a restored earth, the angels that sinned will be analyzed as to their works after they fell before the Flood, and even today. Who knows? Some even now may be repentant, and trying to reverse some of the damage they caused during those days....

Angels that sin are no more unable to repent than humans that sin. They are also made in God's image, with the ability to know, and chose, good and bad. The concept that all the angels that sinned will be destroyed eternally, and that none can repent, is not written in stone anywhere that I know. ...and makes no sense, as all people , too, have a chance to change their evil ways, and receive forgiveness.

Surely angels that sinned, God's sons, have the ability to repent, just as we humans. Doesn't that make sense? That God can have mercy on them, too, if they repent?

 

I'm not sure about that.
As humans we are imperfect and we sin. So Jehovah provided a solution for us via Jesus to be forgiven.
Adam and Eve who were perfect and sinned couldn't get forgiveness anymore.

Angels are also perfect. So why would angels who have the privilege to know Jehovah in a way we never can, get forgiveness when they fall, When they sin it's not because of imperfection, but their own choice.

Humans who knowingly sin (agains holy spirit), cannot be forgiven. The Bible clearly states that sinning against Gods Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. So I think angels/demons fall under that category.

 

Where does this idea come from that Adam and Eve and the angels were "perfect" and if they sinned they could not be forgiven? Could Jehovah God have not made them with the ability to sin and make poor choices for another reason besides eternal destruction? What would be the reason for Jesus to go to the spirits in prison other than to convince them of their wayward course and that they should consider repentance? Did Jesus just go there while he was a spirit to rub it in that they were dead and were never going to be alive agaiin? That's just ridiculous. Jesus ransomed Adam. By ransoming the one man Adam we all are ransomed. Besides the scriptures say that God's justice is "soul for soul" not soul for 10 billion souls. You get this cannot be forgiven idea from the Watchtower that made it up. It is not scriptural.

The scripture that talks about sinning against the Holy Spirit does NOT say that you cannot be forgiven for eternity. It says you will not be forgiven "in this system of things, or in the next" not NEVER. This system is the one we live in now, Satan's. The next system will be the Kingdom of God for 1,000 years. After that is an even newer and different SYSTEM where people and spirits who have sinned against the Holy Spirit can be forgiven.

Corinthians tells us, and we believe that God's LOVE will never fail. 1 Cor. 13:8. We know that the name of Jesus means Jehovah is Salvation. We already know that God IS Love. If he is also Salvation that is what math calls an equivalency. A=B. Also, if A=B and B=C the A=C.

A=LOVE

B= Salvation

C= Never Fails, Since A=B and A=C then B also equals C-----Salvation never fails 1 Cor. 13:8

If love never fails then neither does salvation because God is Salvation as much as he is LOVE and no one would ever question God's Love. That being the case, you also should never question his quality of SALVATION!

Frank

 

Hey Berry,

This is yet another example of our 'conditioning' received via WT's bad analysis. That is; the thought that , 'perfect beings who sin cannot change , or feel repentance, as they are sinning against the holy spirit,'...etc.

This makes no reasonable sense at all, as well as being unwise, or ascribing to God a no love-no mercy manner. God IS love....1 Jn 4:8...and Christ and Father have been demonstrating this point from the very start of the sin in Eden.

WT makes a statement; 'God ejected Adam and Eve to eternal death at Eden, showing them no room for mercy...'

To the contrary, he had mercy on them from the very beginning, teaching them, clothing them, recording the day their child was born, even, and Eve's gratitude toward Father Jah . Certainly she showed a humble spirit of love for her Father there.(Gen. 4:1)

Father continued throughout Cain's life, and on into the personal lives of their 'sinful' children; instructing, disciplining, and blessing us, even when we purposely sin, as in David's case when he murdered Uriah, Bath-Sheba's husband. How about you and I? Do we sometimes deliberately 'sin'? I'm sure you answer yes to yourself. We all do.

I believe Adam and Eve were very naive, just as children are, and had NO IDEA what sin and death really meant in total. How could they? They did learn from their sin, through the results and effects of sin, though, and they will no doubt in my mind be resurrected, because I see no real evil in what they did...just a poor choice.

Although I am not the judge, I know Father and Son will have mercy on whom they will, and seeing Eve was tricked by this angel, and having the problem that she apparently had (fear of having children, and possibly lack of love for her husband and a reticence to have sex with him for fear of childbearing pain, as Genesis infers in Jah's scolding of her...Gen. 3:16) she will not be judged as deserving of the 'Lake of Fire'....a judgment reserved for hard-core repeat offenders (persons 'practicing'sin) Rev. 21:8, Rom. 1:32, ...13:4...1 Cor. 10:8...15:34 See also Paul's admission at Rom. 7:19

I see the old worn-out wineskin of WT, trying to keep new wine of information from leaking out Bible truth all over the place, but in vain. We see new truths and perceptions daily, from simply a casual reading of scripture combined with prayer for holy spirit. (1 John 2:26,27) This, when we make up our minds to begin worshiping God with our own whole mind, heart, soul, and strength; not content with letting someone else tell or lecture us on what the Bible says...as is our God-given right.(Deut. 30:19,20)

Adam knew Eve was upset about him coming on too strong about having relations with him and children...(ok, sure God commanded that)...but that doesn't mean perfect people will never make poor choices; especially young, or children who are uninformed...impatient or inexperienced as Eve was. Nothing in the account showed Eve knew anything about angels; invisible super-smart beings from another 'world;the heavens'

She was 'deceived....blind-sided...crept up on'...however you want to describe it.

Will perfect people make mistakes in judgment? I believe the whole ransom/sin phase of our existence up until now shows that is, and will be, true into eternity.

The pattern of love, mercy, and forgiveness set by Father and Christ has been laid down for mankind and will be the Law code of the Kingdom forever. Perfect people/angels/other created beings here or to come...will all have to give way from time to time for neighbors, children, whoever does a 'dumb' thing now and then, or maybe deliberately due to being stressed, tired, aggravated, etc....which will still exist in any time period. Humans are not 'superman', and never will be, I don't think.

Even Father Jah gets mad, or aggravated, as he did in Noah's day...doesn't mean he 'SINS'. (see Gen. 6:7,8.... We are created in God's image, and with a 'temperament' that includes regret, sorrow, even anger and hate, in addition to love, moderating mercy, and kindness. The scriptures also say there are degrees of sin; some serious, some not so bad. 1 John 5:16,17

All things considered, we must take the scriptural account into our minds for what it says...Jesus preached to these erring angels. What he said, and why? Well, that is our personal privilege to reflect upon, isn't it? Little is stated, and the reader is left to form his own opinion. I will apply what I know about God and Christ, their readiness to forgive error, and apply time , discipline, and mercy to the tragedy that occurred when Satan and these angels invaded earth , plundering, raping, and murdering us for personal pleasures and an agenda to start their own hybrid race..... And the human condition, especially for inexperienced ones, like Eve, and other children. Things will happen. (Murphy's Law)

I'm sure some of the angels wised up pretty quickly, and.had a change of heart later. Maybe very early on, but then again, little is said about that, leaving us to wonder...But then we are told more in the account of Peter's letter.

As I said before, I do think perfect creatures who sinned, thus are damaged...and sinful...whether angels or men...can still change their mind, and repent, just as we too, do. (Isa. 1:18-20)

 

Hello Shikinah,
Whomever is asking for this to be explained, is asking for an answer which cannot be explained easily. You are confused as most everyone else is. Even those so-called Bible Scholars have different opinions as to what is being said, and meant. When reading the Greek, even that is brought into question, depending on which manuscript is used, and how it is worded.

There is questioned, as to whom Peter is referring to when he speaks of “spirits in prison”. Some scholars (Clarke, Coffman, Abbott, Barnes, etc.) cannot agree to the meaning or circumstance of the time or what “spirits”, or what “prison” is being described. Most of them claim that the “spirits in prison” are those people who had sinned before, and while, the ark was being built. They think that during this 120 year period, God was waiting for mankind to repent.

Those thoughts and explanation are quite inadequate. They make no sense, and add more confusion. As an example, Barnes states:

“Unto the spirits in prison. That is, clearly, to the spirits now in prison, for this is the fair meaning of the passage. The obvious sense is, that Peter supposed there were “spirits in prison” at the time when he wrote, and that to those same spirits the Son of God had at some time “preached,” or had made some proclamation respecting the will of God. As this is the only passage in the New Testament on which the Romish doctrine of purgatory is supposed to rest, it is important to ascertain the fair meaning of the language here employed. There are three obvious inquiries in ascertaining its signification. Who are referred to by spirits? What is meant by in prison? Was the message brought to them while in the prison, or at some previous period?

Who are referred to by spirits? The specification in the next verse determines this. They were those “who were sometime disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah.” No others are specified; and if it should be maintained that this means that he went down to hell, or to sheol, and preached to those who are confined there, it could be inferred from this passage only that he preached to that portion of the lost spirits confined there which belonged to the particular generation in which Noah lived. Why he should do this; or how there should be such a separation made in hades that it could be done; or what was the nature of the message which he delivered to that portion, are questions which it is impossible for any man who holds to the opinion that Christ went down to hell after his death to preach, to answer. But if it means that he preached to those who lived in the days of Noah, while they were yet alive, the question will be asked why are they called “spirits?” Were they spirits then, or were they men like others? To this the answer is easy. Peter speaks of them as they were when he wrote; not as they had been, or were at the time when the message was preached to them. The idea is, that to those spirits who were then in prison who had formerly lived in the days of Noah, the message had been in fact delivered. It was not necessary to speak of them precisely as they were at the time when it was delivered, but only in such a way as to identify them. We should use similar language now. If we saw a company of men in prison who had seen better days--a multitude now drunken, and debased, and poor, and riotous --it would not be improper to say that the prospect of wealth and honour was once held out to this ragged and wretched multitude. All that is needful is to identify them as the same persons who once had this prospect. In regard to the inquiry, then, who these ‘spirits’ were, there can be no difference of opinion.

They were that wicked race which lived in the days of Noah. There is no allusion in this passage to any other; there is no intimation that to any others of those “in prison” the message here referred to had been delivered.”(Albert Barnes) Barne's Notes on the New Testament.

As you can see, even this answer is confusing.

 

.Yes it is quite complex and to repeat that myself I'd be tongue tied, so I will copy and paste your reply dear brother. Thank you so much for such a detailed reply..

 

This is very interesting..thank you so much

 

There's a lot of food for thought here, many questions which never came to mind, thank you very much appreciated.

 

This is why I love this group, there's nowhere else I can go with a question and get detailed answers like I do from you guys..Thank you Agape

 

Again another interesting thought, thank you kindly brother

 

Hi All:

Am I missing something? Peter clearly tells us that these demons were ones who were placed in "prison" because of what happened in Noah's day, not demons who were harassing Jesus during his ministry.

Frank

 

Hey Frank, and Sister Shikinah, Barry, ...hello.

Always good to hear your thoughts, and all here, too.

These are the same, I believe. Here's why I think this way;

Notice the account of the demon-possessed man , whom had the name, "Legion". The demons (many) came out, and entered the swine. Then all these ran off the precipice, killing thousands of pigs. This turned these swine-raisers against Christ, because their livelihood was ruined. So, Jesus wound up leaving that area. Thus, the demons, as hateful as ever, left the man, and murder swine...to ruin Jesus' ministry in that area. Evil-geniuses are what they are. Now here is the interesting part of the dialogue between Jesus and these former angels; Matt. 8:29.....

" And , look! they screamed, saying, " What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?"

"..before the appointed time." That is the complete phrase mentioned only in Matthew's account, of this occurrence . The other gospels simply say, "torment us."

Now, the evil demons here showed no remorse over their terrorizing of people, even after the Flood , as we all know. They are still active today, as most can clearly see, and the Bible says so.

(Eph. 6:12)

There is an appointed time for the dead to be judged, according to scripture. Acts 17:31

As we also know, the demons will be judged, according to 1 Cor. 6:3

This judgment will be made by the people of earth made up of the 'sons of God', according to Paul's expression..." ... we shall judge angels."

So, it is implied by the demons themselves there is a judgment day for them. This is also foretold. The demons will be locked up for a thousand years, and will not be able to harass mankind during that time. Thus,..."torment us"....quoted above. We know 'torment' is a word used to also mean ,'jailed'...I believe...locked up, in other words. I think the Greek term is , 'basanjimos',...something like that, anyway.

More than that, they will be destroyed sometime after the 'Thousand Years' has ended, and they evilly come against the 'holy city', and attempt to destroy good people and all their fine work after the 'earth recovery' period , I will say.

That the demons, along with Satan, are involved in the 'casting into the Abyss' for the thousand years can be safely assumed, I believe, as they are also being used during the pre-Armageddon actions by Satan. (Rev. 16:13,14) The 'fire prepared for the Devil and his angels' will be the eventual end of them, of course.

Now, if these are the same demons, or wicked angels that are referred to by Christ...or some new angels that came back to earth after being defeated in the War of Heaven....we can't know. (Rev. 12:8,9) But, it is apparent that all wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places are lining themselves up for the 'Lake of Fire', surely.

What we can't even begin to assume, though, is that every last demon is incorrigible,
as Paul did say, "we shall judge angels". If they have to be judged, that shows a 'sorting out'...I think.

See John 5:26-30 for comparison, and evaluation.

What do you think?


"

 

I've always wondered at this account. I'm sure Jesus knew what would happen to the swine when demons entered them, so why did he allow this, 'special possession of animals', something we don't even see today, to occur...knowing they would all be killed?

Just ruminating over this, I think possibly these swine herders were a source of illegitimate meat that was being sold to the Jews who lived adjacent to the area, causing some to transgress the commandments of Jehovah not to eat pork. So, Jesus would've been only too happy to put a stop to that business , even indirectly....and end the money-grabbing Gentiles' ruining the true worship of poor Jews, over their need for food.

Just a thought.

 

While this is a most interesting thread I'm not going to attempt to explain that scripture.

Man wants vengeance he feels demons should be unable to be saved for what they did.

Me I don't know when I get to one of those spiritually combobulating verses I say I don't know let me know when you figured it out.


I will be over at the tree picking giant red figs