So Gods people will be marked in the forehead then with the Lords name? Rev 22:4 "and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." Mankind is to be branded by God? Rev 7:3 "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” You must understand the difference between literal and metaphor in scripture, and how to identify the two. And what does "full" have anything to do with anything?
Let me state this another way. So what you are saying is, Christ Jesus will also put a chip into his followers? For those who follow Christ receive a mark in their foreheads, just like those who receive the mark of the beast. Rev 7:3 "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” Rev 13:16 "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead," With all do respect brother, what you are seeing are metaphors. This does not lesson the prophecy in any way, you must understand what the metaphor stands for, and who those men are in the first bowl.
From the context you should be able to understand when the mark is a litteral mark and when it is a symbolic mark. It is evident in Revelation 13:16-18 that it talks about a litteral mark. Revelation 13:16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead,17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six. And the reports that speak about the RFID chip and how it will be used fit too well to the scriptures. So it is it. You don't have to make the application of those scriptures more complicated. Better just to accept it. Also the number 666 is litteraly a favored number by the "elite".
Josh is it possible to have the spiritual implications of not buy and selling and also a literal one???...that doesn't sound like a sensible statement I know..but I a,mtalkimg this over with a few who know TATT....the are not convinced but I certainly think we have been on the wrong trail with this...and it's very cunning If Satan....he has misled ones..to concentrate on getting physical things ready instead of spitual food....very tricky of him I think..
This is what Russell,wrote in Studies of the scriptures ...concerning the buying and selling....he could see it wasn't literal.....very interesting
So allow me to just think aloud here.....those that refuse the mark of the beast it seems will not be able to use scripture or the truth.. Or even talk of it ..or even as the Russian laws say..not even talk about it to ones who even live with us ..and are unbelievers ...I'm not sure that will happen world wide but they are certainly implementing it in Russia and now in China.. ..but those who are approved by the image of the beast ....can trade and buy and sell amongst themselves as far as their doctrines go.....they can still openly practice their faith..as ..They are approved by the states or UN...??...not sure on that ? We tho will be captive to Babylon the great.....and refused this privilege of exchanging doctrines or truths...we can not BUY from Jesus Rev 3:18 .......I advice you to BUY from me gold refined by fire.( it's pure ) that you may become Rich ( spiritually ) and white garments so that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness ( spiritual nakedness) may not be exposed ..and eye salve to rub in your eyes so you can see. ( so the scales fall from your eyes I guess? )......... That's why we have to get filled up with as much accurate knowledge now....because when we are disciplined and banned...as is already happening around the world.......we can not buy and sell from Jesus.....we will be in a spiritual famine......so if we don't fill up now on accurate spiritual knowledge ...We may be in great trouble soon.....but if we are awake To this we will not stumble...as we will be spiritually clothed....but many will stumble..as the will be naked..as they wont understand any of this.... Okay how far of the mark am I...? .
When we try to understand Revelation we should have in mind Revelation 1:1: A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs So here we get to know that the Revelation tells us about things that will litteraly happen. The signs or visions depict something litteral. So the mark of the beast should also be something litteral.
But Jan it's the most symbolic book in the bible....most of it cannot be taken literally......thats.why when speaking of the mark of the beast he says we must use wisdom.....and another phrase he uses...let the one with an ear hear... It seems he has written it like a riddle...for he doesn't want everyone to understand it until he chooses to unveil it to the ones he wants at his time. Personally I find it the most frustrating book in the bible....but I'm happy to know realise that the buying and selling is symbolic......and Satan was thrown to earth very early on in history....now I'm beginning to wonder if the annoited will actually not be killed literally as so many think.....that's my next step.....perhaps some have already written info on that already here...I don't know.. .jehovah would not have given John this info in sighns if he wanted us to take it literally....that doesn't make sense ....even John never understood what he was seeing... Ask yourself why is the Mark of the beast is on their forehead Or on their hand.... Also in Ezekial the mark by the ink horn ..put on those groaning about the conditions was a symbolic marking ... But it sure has tricked a lot of us for a long time....some/many of us may have got distracted and put energies into that misunderstood scripture...
No, no, no, The point of giving the revelation in signs was to keep the litteral fulfillment obscure. The same happened with the dreams of Pharaoh that Josef could give a litteral application to. The same with the dreams of Nebucadnessar. Daniel could give a litteral explanation to them. That is the pattern.
Of course the visions depict literal events, but I can guarantee you that a seven headed beast is not going to come out of the sea to enslave mankind.
I do see the mark as literal, primarily because it's used for a reason: - denying buying AND selling, causing an overt separation along the lines of the core mechanics of "love of the world" [economics] - a permanent judgment against humans, that means it cannot just be a capricious judgment "trick" that some fall for, but an overt opposition to Jehovah through the beast, beyond anything mankind has seen Millions of people who were murderers, rapists, etc. will be resurrected. So the "mark" has to be so onerous that it's not worth resurrection the group who participates with the beast-system. A unique judgment event. Russell's interpretation is by necessity of the time period he wrote it -- he couldn't imagine/see a global economic system which could track ALL humans. Now it's here. You can be "erased" at the push of a button. Hence Jesus stated that those who denied this group [non-beast-marked] from food, shelter, were as if they denied him.
Also agree with Joshua about Jehovah's mark, that is clearly spiritual. Rev 13's mark has spiritual and physical descriptions, and is put upon the whole world by the beast-system. Apples and oranges.
My question to your reasoning brother is; Where do you draw the line in the sand? Are you saying that when buying and selling are discussed along with Gods kingdom they are metaphors, yet when discussed along side this world they are literal? Christ Jesus told us to buy refined gold from him in Rev 3:18. That denotes buying and selling within the pages of Revelation, not unlike the buying and selling in Rev 13. And if so, where is the precedence for such a stance, to not allow all occurrences of buying and selling to have a single meaning? Also, if you could please comment on the fact that once Babylon goes down there is no one to buy their cargo. Does this not suggest that buying and selling on earth was only going on in Babylon? (Rev 18:11) As a side note I would also like to ask you, why you think that a metaphoric buying and selling in Rev 13 wouldn't have the same kind opposition to Jehovah's kingdom as a physical mark? Let's say one day the Governing Body was exposed to having some financial dealings with governments opposed to Western ideology, would that not institute an opposition to Jehovah's kingdom, where individual men are exposed supporting world governments or institutions? Does not Jehovah know the hearts of man, and recognize which form of government they support?
Joshua wrote: Also, if you could please comment on the fact that once Babylon goes down there is no one to buy their cargo. Does this not suggest that buying and selling on earth was only going on in Babylon? (Rev 18:11) Joshua, it does not say what you say. But the scripture says there is no one to by their FULL cargo. So commerce will continue. But not as smothely as before. That is because Babylon the Great is New York, that is a huge financial centre. When it is destroyed commerce will suffer a lot of interruption.
Jesus only mentions buying though right? We're missing the other half. That said, I'm less concerned with ferreting out various interconnections up against the other things I mentioned. Namely: Those who take the mark lose the hope of resurrection. Therefore, a God of Love is not going to condemn people based on interpretation/trickery/whoops you got the mark, etc., and resurrect rapists from 100 years ago. The mark symbolizes absolute rejection of Jesus kingdom and sacrifice. First death = second death. I see no reason to link the two honestly. BTG goes down and loses what made her powerful (position on top of the nation-states) The beast prevents buying and selling against the whole world system for the non-compliant. Functionally I don't see the connection. The "mark of the beast" is the proverbial Nebuchadnezzar "bow to the statue" moment. Primarily because this identification, number, agreement with the beast is put under compulsion to the whole world. That reads, to me at least, as unique and overt in history. Worthy of second death to those who go with the beast-system. It's a spiritual mark expressed physically. The pattern of the scriptures! Spiritual death precedes physical death. David's census was a spiritual sickness expressed physically (etc).
I wouldn't say that, obviously buy purchasing from him, he is the seller. It's as if he's saying purchase from him, not the wild beast. To me, the only way to keep ones own self interpretation away from the text, is to say all forms of buying and selling in scripture must mean the same thing. They are either all literal, or all metaphoric. We have a precedence in this understanding such as the numbers, beasts, etc... Each subject is either all or not. We cannot make the marks, nor the buying and selling a light switch we can flip to metaphoric or literal at our wishing. Not only do we have the buying and selling connection for both good and bad (Christs selling gold/Beast selling gold), but we also have the marks. Those buying from Christ receive a mark in their foreheads, and those buying from the beast receive a mark in their forehead. If one wishes to allow the text to explain itself without personal interpretation, I argue that both the buying and selling, and both marks are either all metaphors, or all literal. Is that so though? What about those who do not take the mark of the beast, do they also have dominion over them? Rev 13 says that the beast has dominion over everyone, and THEY are given a mark, so therefore the dominion can only be over those given a mark of the wild beast, not everyone. Therefore once Babylon goes down, so do all those who were buying within her. I have to argue clearly Rev 18:11 is telling us that the buying and selling going on in Babylon is the same buying and selling in Rev 13. To me this is the only way to allow the text to explain itself without external interruption. Once Babylon goes down there is no one left to receive the mark of the beast by buying from the merchants. Agreed, but do you really need a physical mark to prove this? Did those in Babylon need a physical mark, or did they just need to bow? Anyone who thinks the mark is a chip or credit card is missing the fact that we have that now, my credit cards have chips, what does it matter if it was on my skin? I know you'll say in the future you see some sort of need to except the wild beast as their saviors in order to receive a new form of currency, I myself had thought that's what the text was saying once upon a time, but what if you can receive the mark before the 8th king arises, before the wild beast goes into the abyss? Rev 16:2 "The first one went off and poured out his bowl on the earth. And a hurtful and malignant ulcer afflicted the people who had the mark of the wild beast and who were worshipping its image." Rev 16:10 "The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain," Are you sure about this? Is the text talking about the whole world, or those within its influence?
So your saying that Rev 18 is saying there will only be people buying their PARTIAL cargo after Babylon goes down, not their FULL cargo? Therefore before Babylon goes down they were selling their entire cargo, and after Babylon goes down they will only be able to sell part of their cargo, and that is the meaning of Rev 18:11-19?