Friday, May 21

Discussion in 'Daily Text' started by Jinnvisible, May 21, 2021.

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    Jinnvisible

    Jinnvisible Experienced Member

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    Friday, May 21


    Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!”
    then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them.

    1 Thess. 5:3.

    World leaders sometimes use similar expressions when they talk about stabilizing relationships between nations.

    However, the announcement of “peace and security” that the Bible describes will be different.


    Why? When this happens, people may think that world leaders have succeeded in making the world a safer, more secure place. But in reality, “sudden destruction” will follow as the “great tribulation” unfolds. (Matt. 24:21)

    We do not know what will lead up to the declaration or how it will be made. And we do not know whether it will involve just one proclamation or a series of announcements. Whatever happens, we do know this: We should not be fooled into thinking that world leaders can actually achieve world peace. Rather, it is the signal that “Jehovah’s day” is about to begin!—1 Thess. 5:2.

    w19.10 8-9 ¶3-4
     
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    Jinnvisible

    Jinnvisible Experienced Member

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    If this Bethelite had a lunch hour from 12 noon to 1pm each day, and you instructed him that AT A SUDDEN MOMENT DURING HIS LUNCH he must stand up suddenly and instantly announce the time, this Bethelite would shout "Its 12 noon",,,, everyday. Really your instruction meant he was free to stand up at any point within his lunch hour and shout the time. So long as when he stood up and shouted, there was nothing to immediately indicate he was about to do it. He just had to do it instantly and suddenly within that hour.

    An attempt here to establish a distinction between the 'Peace and Security' statements such as have been issued by the United Nations organisation over several decades, as a kind of motto, (lets call that A); and some other percieved declaration/s of 'Peace and security', which he says is the one Jesus is talking & prophesying about described here as declaration/s (B.)

    However the writer then states he does not know what will lead up to declarations/ B.


    "We do not know what will lead up to the declaration or how it will be made. And we do not know whether it will involve just one proclamation or a series of announcements. "


    By the Bethel commentators own logic, a specific declaration of 'Peace and Security' marking the begining of Great tribulation (B) ....could possibly be preceded by 'general' declarations of Peace and Security by the same people (A)

    So he's really covered his bases.

    Imagine a school boy who has ten cakes lined up on a table. You ask 'Which one is mine ?' The schoolboy answers 'Your one is specifically the one immeadiately after the one where i stop eating'...

    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matt 24;36


    This statement is unusual.

    There are many statements by Jesus which express some kind of connectivity between himself and Jehovah. So much so, that people use them to suggest they are one and the same person. Therefore its worth considering why in this instance Jesus is making a distinction of knowlege between himself and Jehovah. It can only be sensible to realise that anticipating the timing of events in a general sense is not likely to be particularly easy.

    Failed attempts at interpreting prophesy are very likely. The question is whether the level of expectancy to adhere to the utterances of the interpreters, is proportional to thier ability to do it and be honest about it.

    WTBTS used to be satisfied drawing attention to the U.N statements of 'Peace & Security' generally. It may be that as time continues and Bethel feels 'the master is delaying' there is an attempt to refine and move the knowlege on, which may result in these kinds of 'interpretation remix', 'interpretation the sequel'. The scriptural verse immeadiately prior to the one examined is verse 2.

    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    So whilst scrutinising exacting time markers like the commentary is attempting, we are even dealling with metaphors of time, a metaphorical 'night'. A thief working at night is lible to do his work quickly and suddenly to avoid detection, at an inperceptable hour within the overall trmeframe of the night.


    Bethel has confused what Jesus was saying. Jesus was not saying destruction will come suddenly at 12 noon. Jesus was saying destruction will come suddenly and instantly within the lunch hour.

    The simple watch every step, But the prudent consider the way.

    The United Nations by using the mottos such as 'Peace & Security', 'Peace & Stability' is raising a flag of intent, a mission statement then in a time of massive turmoil and chaos the U.N. will be looked to as an authority primed to bring order, continually doing so. Continue excersizing authority for a time.

    The methods by which the authority of the U.N. manages to bring order to the nations after an initial period of intense chaos may bring an end to the initial chaos in a general sense, yet likely to be problematic for believers.

    During a lead up prior to the initial period of chaos (1) the UN is pre-advertising itself as a means to 'Peace and Security'. Also during the chaos (2) it continues advertising itself as the solution to bringng 'Peace and Security' . Then during such time it acts as an overseeing stabalising authorityit (3) it continues with the motto. 'Peace & Security' untill it is destroyed.

    Jesus was actually explaining how at an unknown moment in a timeframe of the night, a thief arrives and in a sudden instant, does his work. He was not indicating the instant night comes the thief will strike, which is the equivelent of what the Bethel commentary is attempting to describe, trying to milk the cow after the milking is done.

    Its high noon, the lunching hour and the quick draw Bethelite is eating all the cakes, drinking dirctly from the cows udder and talking whilst his mouth is full. At least faithfully and descreetly he's got the right cow.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
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    Timothy Kline

    Timothy Kline Member

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    I'm not clear why the Watchtower and its supporters keep thinking that the apostle Paul's declaration here is referring to some worldwide announcement by a nation or alliance of nations or world power or... ANYthing except what I gather Paul's speaking to here.

    In fact, the Watchtower organization's application has always troubled me, even during the time I was a member "in good standing," although for a short while I repeated the "party line" interpretation on Pathways Online back in the day, and probably on a blog or two as well.

    The apostle Paul is recalling what had already been called out by the earlier prophets, in regards to God's own people — not the worldly nations and empires:

    “For from the least of them to the greatest, all are greedy for gain; from prophet to priest, all practice deceit. They dress the wound of My people with very little care, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace at all. Are they ashamed of the abomination they have committed? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they will collapse...”—Jeremiah 6:13-15 Berean Study Bible

    Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Because you have uttered vain words and seen false visions, I am against you, declares the Lord GOD. My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and speak lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of My people or be recorded in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord GOD. Because they have led My people astray, saying, ‘Peace,’ when there is no peace, and whitewashing any flimsy wall that is built, tell those whitewashing the wall that it will fall. Rain will come in torrents, I will send hailstones plunging down, and a windstorm will burst forth. Surely when the wall has fallen, you will not be asked, ‘Where is the whitewash with which you covered it?’ Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: In My wrath I will release a windstorm, and in My anger torrents of rain and hail will fall with destructive fury. I will tear down the wall you whitewashed and level it to the ground, so that its foundation is exposed. The city will fall, and you will be destroyed within it. Then you will know that I am the LORD. —Ezekiel 13:8-14 Berean Study Bible

    This is what the LORD says: “As for the prophets who lead My people astray, who proclaim peace while they chew with their teeth,
    but declare war against one who puts nothing in their mouths: Therefore night will come over you without visions, and darkness without divination. The sun will set on these prophets, and the daylight will turn black over them. Then the seers will be ashamed and the diviners will be disgraced. They will all cover their mouths because there is no answer from God.” As for me, however, I am filled with power by the Spirit of the LORD, with justice and courage, to declare to Jacob his transgression and to Israel his sin. Now hear this, O leaders of the house of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel, who despise justice and pervert all that is right, who build Zion with bloodshed and Jerusalem with iniquity. Her leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets practice divination for money. Yet they lean upon the LORD, saying, “Is not the LORD among us? No disaster can come upon us.” Therefore, because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, and the temple mount a wooded ridge.
    —Micah 3:5-12 Berean Study Bible

    Personally, I believe this was fulfilled when the Roman armies withdrew from Jerusalem in 66/67 CE— and came down on Jerusalem and its leaders when the Roman armies returned in 70CE to bring about the long-foretold judgment and end of the Mosaic Age.

    Regardless, it is clear that Paul's NOT talking about the worldly nations and their pitiable declarations of peace and security— not when we have a full witness by three prophets to Israel who forewarned the disaster that would come upon those who tried to deceive God's people from the reality of their condition before Him.

    Others' mileage may vary, and I'm only submitting this for perusal and consideration,
    Timothy
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for that brother,

    Very good observation...
     

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