I believe you said you were anointed . I am glad of it, as I am too. I want to be closer to Christ, as he is my head, and I aim to be working directly with him, even now as an ambassador of the good news.

I do talk to him occasionally, even as the scriptures say I can, which you didn't see to pick up on there...even quoted them yourself. Yes, of course, at the beginning of his ministry, Jesus was answering a question the disciples asked about how should they pray.

Long after, near the end of his earthly life, shortly before his death, he explains many things openly, as he did here in John 14. The oneness of the spirit is also spoken outright the night before his death. (Jon 17)

My brother in Christ...reading the gospel of John carefully over and again, and letting Christ himself explain the details of Christian instructions; hopes, beliefs, destination...I was enlightened as never before....especially because I went straight to the Kingdom Interlinear, to find out what the original greek text said; as I have done here with Wescott and Hort....John 14.

Jesus clearly states I can ask him anything. It took me awhile to do this, as I had to think about it for years, before I decided,"Yes;I'm going to talk to him and show my appreciation, obedience, and desire to have a relationship with him."

When I did, I felt better, too. I want to work closely with him by sharing his explicit instructions , as here from John 14, to clarify truths withheld from us all our lives. (I was born in)

I called a couple of my closest friends in the JW way, to let them know I still love and serve Jah. I told them about being anointed, and they scorned me, 'saying nobody's anointed like that...you have a demon.'

They also related to me something I did not know, as I moved away from California to Mississippi nearly 40 years ago. They said two other sisters whom I pioneered with had 'claimed' they had received the anointing,...."but the elders told her, no....anointing doesn't occur anymore"...etc. Apparently, they...like so many other JW anointed...had to just hide it, and partake at home.

What do you

 

If you had opportunity to talk with Christ, would you?

 

Let me ask you this , too. If you ask our Father if you could talk to Christ, what do you think he would say to you?

Why don'y you try this sometime? Then be very quiet, and let no distractions in, and then see if you don't hear Father speak to you in your mind.

 

Nine persons from my wife's congregation in Ohio were df'd for 'hearing Jehovah's voice ' in their mind during prayer; claiming they were demonized. Two were reg. pioneers.

 

Like I said to Robert ...we are very much like Samuel in this regard

1 Samuel 3:7-11 (NIV) you all know where to put the YHWH

7 Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord: The word of the Lord
had not yet been revealed to him.

8 A third time the Lord called, “Samuel!†And Samuel got up and
went to Eli and said, “Here I am; you called me.â€

Then Eli realized that the Lord was calling the boy. 9 So Eli told Samuel,
“Go and lie down, and if he calls you, say, ‘Speak, Lord, for your
servant is listening.’†So Samuel went and lay down in his place.

10 The Lord came and stood there, calling as at the other times,
“Samuel! Samuel!â€

Then Samuel said, “Speak, for your servant is listening.â€

11 And the Lord said to Samuel: “See, I am about to do something
in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears about it tingle.



https://poetryofprovidence.wordpress.com/promissory-note/

 

"if ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do." Jesus, at John 14:14

I showed you the scripture from the original Greek Wescott and Hort.

I showed you from NIV, and Phillips.

My understanding is solidly based on scripture.

Further, When Stephen was stoned, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Lord Jesus. receive my spirit." A direct prayer to Jesus.

Jesus also spoke directly to the Apostle Paul; who spoke back to him. And the Apostle John, the entire Revelation. ...which was a message from Jesus to be passed along to the whole congregation of Christ until he returns in kingdom power. The apostles were directed by Jesus in their whole ministry, He speaking to them numerous times; book of Acts.

Yet you say, Jesus never speaks to his followers, and we should never speak to him.

Comment?

 

I'm sorry, Joshua....

...if this discussion seems to be offensive to you, as I'm sure it was to me not too long ago. In fact as a JW, I would never have questioned only praying to Jehovah, as we were taught Jesus was just another angel.

But as I began re-studying everything scriptural;with major emphasis on ;

1. John'gospel

2. All the New Testament and the Acts of Apostles...Paul's writings...who was extremely helpful on enlarging our understanding of all Jesus said.

3. Genesis 3-6 ; Eden, the Two Trees, Satan's ambition to create his own race, etc. Thinking about what 'perfect people'...or even angels were able to do...

I started seeing what JW had taught on all subjects was extremely short--sighted, and shallow...even totally 180 degrees out of sync with Jesus' teachings.

This is a major one, where I have learned otherwise; Jesus has been elevated to a name better than anyone's and to whom all beings in heaven, earth, above and below ground must bend their knee. He is a co-Creator, with unlimited knowledge, as he himself said the Father showed him ALL things.

Even earth, and mankind he created, and they exist FOR him, as John 1 says.

Michael, the archangel theory doesn't hold a spoonful of truth to me; Jesus is a god, and we must honor him and treat him just as we would the Father, Jehovah says.

"My sheep listen to my voice and I know them and they follow me," Jesus said. John 10:27

There is a reawakening for Jehovah's Witnesses that are thirsty for Bible truth. Jesus is feeding HIS sheep, and they are listening to his voice, even now, finally....as WT has failed to deliver the voice of the master, but insists we listen to their shepherds... (John 10:1) or we will be thrown into the LOF. (Go figure?)

Jehovah has delivered all things into Jesus' hands as many scriptures say; judging, teaching, even resurrection. He has been given the keys of death, hades, and has the power to give life at the sound of his voice (John 5:28,29)

"Look! I am making all things new!" God says.

Be ready, all, for new beginnings and new understanding that was right in front of our eyes the whole time. The time for new wine is upon us.

WT's old wineskins cannot hope to keep this fermentation from happening....the skins are bursting now, and their war on 'apostates' they are losing, because the truth is setting their slaves free, is it not? You, here, as a moderator on this site, are in a position of great privelege, as you see this miracle occurring, and are contributing your energy and research to its growth! I know you feel great satisfaction fulfilling your part of this process, as all here are also doing.

You are one who knows, I have read many of your essays....

But, all that being said...I have to agree with you in this matter. We are all being led to the Father by Christ; and Jehovah alone is our Father...Jesus our brother, and we must keep this true perspective and teach to that effect. Amen, nuff said.

Thanks again, and peace to you my spirit-filled brother.

 

Hi Joe,

They are sealed out of the Israel of God, not chosen out of it.

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:" - Rv 7:4

It may be a detail but that's unfortunately like this that people starting putting faith in fables.

 

Hi John,

I expected more stringency and intellectual honesty in terms of reasoning and argumentation from someone who seems so blessed in his relations with the other-worldly realms. Is there static on the line ?



The word "me" is absent from many Greek texts and many no-JW Bibles don't include "me" in John 14:14. Therefore, the WT isn't hiding anything. They just did that which others did too, but why ?

Please read the following post quoted from there*.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

This is a great question! Recently an EOMin representative wrote me this statement below:

“Jesus taught Christians to pray TO himself in John 14:14, yet the NWT omits the word "me" to hide this! They have added words and removed words to protect their doctrine.â€

Mr. Dan Corner who has written articles on their website went further:

“When one follows the above guidelines of the WS for John 14:14, the evidence reveals that the NWT is not accurately translated. The exact Greek word-for-word rendering in the KIT for that verse is: if ever anything YOU should ask me in the name of me this I shall do. According to that Greek text, the Lord Jesus taught his disciples to pray to himself and he (Jesus) shall do it. In contrast to the Greek, the NWT inaccurately reads: If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it. NOTE: Though it is clear that the Lord Jesus taught his disciples that they could pray to himself, this truth is concealed in the NWT by omitting the word me.â€

Does the evidence reveal that the NWT “inaccurately†translated John 14:14? Is the NWT guilty of “concealing†or hiding “me†in this text?

Here are some translations that render John 14:14 very similarly to how it appears in the New World Translation:

King James Version: “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.â€

American King James Version: “If you shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.â€

Darby Bible Translation: “If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it.â€

Webster’s Bible Translation: “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.â€

World English Bible: “If you will ask anything in my name, I will do it.â€

Geneva Study Bible: “If ye ask anything in my name I will do it.â€

Young’s Literal Translation: “if ye ask anything in my name I will do [it].â€

And here are a few other Bible translations and versions that I am aware of s that do not have “me†in John 14:14. The American Standard Version, C.B Williams, Montgomery, Revised Standard 1946 & 1971, Jerusalem Bible, Amplified Bible, Norlie, The Revised English Bible 1989, The Scriptures 1998, The Complete Jewish Bible 1998, The New Covenant-Willis Barnstone, 2002, The Living Bible, Emphatic Diaglott, The New English Bible, Modern Language Bible (Berkeley), Twentieth Century New Testament, the Unvarnished New Testament.

The English Standard Version translators also had reservations about including “me†and translated this passage this way: “If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.†They also correctly alert their readers why in the footnote: “Some manuscripts omit me.â€

The NASB (New American Standard Bible) uses "me" in the text, but provides in a footnote it brings attention to this, it says: Other ancient authorities lack "me."

Still, Mr. Dan Corner brings out: “The exact Greek word-for-word rendering in the KIT for that verse is: if ever anything YOU should ask me in the name of me this I shall do.â€

It is true that the primary text used in the KIT (Kingdom Interlinear) from Westcott and Hort includes “me†in their text. But there is something Mr. Dan Corner does not bother to inform his audience.

The New World Translation only used the Westcott and Hort Master Greek text as the MAIN BASE for a starting point as brought out in the New World Translation Reference Bible page 6, “Introduction.†There it states:

“GREEK TEXT: The basic Greek text used for the preparation of the English text of the Christian Greek Scripture portion of the New World Translation was The New Testament in the Original Greek, by Westcott and Hort (originally published in 1881). The Greek texts of Nestle, Bover, Merk and others were also considered. The Greek transliterations for the Christian Greek Scripture portion of the Bible, identified as “Gr.,†are from the Westcott and Hort text as reproduced in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1969). In the Hebrew Scriptures “Gr.†refers to transliterations from the Greek Septuagint (LXX), by A. Rahlfs, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart, 1935. Other Greek sources have been indicated by their respective symbols.â€

And as indicated by the NWT translators themselves, OTHER sources were consulted. This is what Mr. Corner and your EOMin Representative who wrote me do not mention in an effort to make it appear that the NWT translators have taken it upon themselves to tamper with the text.

Here are the other sources for the text of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures:

“Armenian Version, Coptic Versions, Syriac Versions—Curetonian, Philoxenian, Harclean, Palestinian, Sinaitic, Peshitta, Latin Vulgate, Sixtine and Clementine Revised Latin Texts, Greek Cursive MSS, Erasmus Text, Stephanus Text, Textus Receptus, Griesbach Greek Text, Emphatic Diaglott, Papyri—(e.g., Chester Beatty P45, P46, P47; Bodmer P66, P74, P75), Early Greek Uncial MSS.—Vatican 1209 (B), Sinaitic (א), Alexandrine (A), Ephraemi Syri rescriptus (C), Bezae (D), Bover Greek Text, Merk Greek Text, Nestle-Aland Greek Text, United Bible Societies Greek Text, 23 Hebrew Versions (14th-20th centuries), translated either from the Greek or from the Latin Vulgate.â€

The New World Translation Reference Bible decided based on the best manuscript evidence at that time that John 14:14 should be translated: “If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it. “ They properly found fit to inform the reader that not all manuscripts agree in the footnote: “Ask,†ADIt and in agreement with 15:16 and 16:23; P66אBWVgSyh,p, “ask me.â€

Did you notice what else helped influence their decision on the translation of this text in dispute? It was right in the footnote that mentioned the surrounding verses of John 15:16 and 16:23. What does the internal evidence point to as the One to whom prayer should be directed according to the Gospel of John? What was the inspired writer John inspired to write? What did Jesus himself say? Unquestionably, what can ALL other manuscripts agree on?

According to the New American Standard Bible in John 15:16 it says, “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. (John 15:16)

In John 16:23, Jesus continues on this same line of thought. He says, “In that day you will not question Me about anything Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.†(NASB)

Even before John 14:14 just a few verse before Jesus clearly said, “No one comes to the Father except through me.â€

Jesus did not intend that prayer should be diverted from “the Father†to him. Instead, he was opening up a new way of access to his Father. That is why he taught his disciples to pray, “Out FATHER in heaven…†(Matthew 6:9) Christians should abide by that model prayer.

To sum things up regarding John 14:14, it seems the safest, most reliable and harmonious conclusion is that we should ask “the Father†for anything “in Jesus name.†A translator who wants to consistently render this passage to convey this reoccurring truth cannot be faulted for drawing this conclusion. If manuscript evidence does not agree internal evidence within the book of John as well as the rest of the inspired sacred documents should be strongly considered, and it was by the NWT translators.

Nothing I presented may change your personal viewpoint of how John 14:14 should be translated. What you think is entirely up to you. Nevertheless, the NWT cannot be severely criticized or accused of dishonesty for “hiding†or “concealing†what very well most likely was not there to begin with.

I read alot on the internet, "How come the translators of the New World Translation did not go with the reading in their own KIT (Kingdom Greek Interlinear) with the base text being produced by Westcott and Hort which they principally use?" Is not "me" in that Greek text?

Were you aware that the original 1881 text of Westcott and Hort Greek text has brackets around “me†in John 14:14? Westcott and Hort enclosed "me" in brackets denoting that the word “me†is at least in some degree doubtful. These brackets reflect those places where the critical text editors considered the inclusion or omission of such words to be in question.

The reader should consult the Introduction volume to the Westcott-Hort edition (as well as the introductions to the Nestle-Aland 26-27/UBS 3-4 editions) for more information concerning this aspect of their respective texts. This is often overlooked or not acknowledged but this is highly significant. The NWT translators noted these purposeful brackets because they paid attention to indications of variant readings.

Nick Batchelor · 4 years ago

(to be continued)

*The other answers on this thread are very interesting too.

I'm going to make the research that YOU should have made before uttering insubstantial theological claims mainly based on the feelings that your personal experience gave rise in you.

 

John 14

Brother Utuna,

Thank you for the good and pertinent research. I balk a bit at what you said, though, that I should have done my research better, before uttering...well, this is what you said,

"I'm going to make the research that YOU should have made before uttering insubstantial theological claims based on the feelings that your personal experience gave rise in you."

I did my research through reading Bibles translated by scholars trained in the original languages; which I certainly am not. Are you?

And it is a known fact Franz, who dropped out of college , did not have credentials to translate anything ...cannot be trusted. I saw he had changed meanings of scripture many times, as a way to bury the real experience of attaining oneness with God and Christ. "In union with"....strongly denies the very real experience of having God and Christ live inside us.

I do have feelings; yes, I have very real experiences from the anointing, as other anointed JW's have also. When the anointing comes, it is not an intellectual event only; say , like a teacher taking you into study hall, and personally explaining passages of scripture.

I had done all the research for two years before Christ and the holy spirit approached me in a day vision; and Christ spoke to me; "We want you to come up here." The holy spirit was beside him, as a shimmering oval orb of energy, but it did not speak....just 'shimmered'...(lol). But the whole experience was not my own conjuring, demon, or anything else; I take it just as it was. Believe it or not. I was a JW at the time; had been for all my life , and I was 52. ....non-drug user, very little alcohol, either....

If you have not been anointed, you will never know this as real, but seem like supernatural garbage. Sorry...or you may keep tongue in cheek, and begin to think about this for yourself, as is my whole intention for coming over here to discuss with you; "the Heavenly Hope".

​

----------------------------------------
​

 

Hi John,

I don't question you being anointed or even having really witnessed spiritual entities and heard voices from them. It's not my job, neither do I have authority, to tell whether someone is really anointed or not. Actually, I don't care about it. That's also why there is nothing in my intentions and motives strictly against you.

What really bugs me is when I read posts (here or on other forums) who say something like : "Hey, guys ! Here I am. I'm anointed, I saw Jesus once and he talks to me once in a while. Here is what the Bible says. You can trust me blindly since the holy spirit is never wrong...."

That's not a game ! There is too much at stake for us all to be nonchalant in that regard ! There are members of the forums here or elsewhere and lurkers who may put faith in such personal teachings and who repeat them blindly just because the individual who uttered them claimed to be from the anointed. There are even people, supposedly anointed, who incite others to leave the WT for the sake of truth, with all the terrible consequences that such a decision will have for them and their families, whereas the truth that they themselves put forth instead is sheer hooey...

Many people have gotten rid of the GB, forgetting that the GB next generation is just around the corner...

I repeat. I have nothing against you on personal grounds but before using your authority as an anointed to act like a trusted teacher, you'll have to present more thorough and thought-out arguments than just ""The WT should have said that we're in Christ and not only in union with him" since that is what I feel". Yes, the spirit is never wrong and does teach us but when I read sheer nonsense all over internet written by people who claim to have received it, JWs or not, it makes me wonder and want to expect more from them than sheer nonsense.

One of my aunts is a hardcore Catholic and she told me once : "I know that the Trinity is true because I know it, I can feel it !"

 

Hearsay

Brother Utuna;

Of course, of course! point well-taken and I totally agree.

"Does not the ear taste words as the palate does food?" Job 12:11

I agree 100% we should be taught by holy spirit; i.e. scripture to verify and establish our beliefs. (2 Tim. 3:15,16)

That is why I incorporated 3 scriptures from well known translations in my discussion with Joshua...as you did too. There was nothing I fabricated in any response about John 14.

Yes, it's true naive' JW's can and do fall victim to unreal lies about JW's, scripture, and twisted 'facts' online, just as Peter said did happen in 1st century over Paul's writings. We must have corroboration from Scripture; no argument from me.

Like I said, I would like to bury my participation in this subject; 'praying to Jesus', for now; considering it to be a 'hot topic'.

Paul said, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are upbuilding..."....or something to that effect.

Peace to you brothers, and if you allow me, I will continue to read, and enjoy the association here; blending more love and tact into the bowl along with the scriptural ingredients

 

Hi Utuna,

Sorry if it seems I was impling something in a non technical way - Acurat knowledge is important to Jehovah and Jesus - but I do not believe they will discard us if we slip up and get something out of order.

I would say though that to be sealed you must be called and chosen.

May you have a peaceful and happy day.

Joe

 

The New World Translation only used the Westcott and Hort Master Greek text as the MAIN BASE for a starting point as brought out in the New World Translation Reference Bible page 6, “Introduction.â€￾ There it states:

ahhh , there are days that I swear you were raised American in your humor selection ..
...even if there be some slight amount of truth to how the spirit teaches us ...

as for the Westcott and Hort text , there is some great amount of contention as to it's
authenticity and origin ...(having deep catholic roots and the debates between
Tischendorf and Simonides )as to whether this and the Polygott which the Catholic
church had "dug up' in order to do battle with the protestant translations. The Westcott
and Hort is now off my "preferred list" of translations to be read ...with the jesuits
insertion into the many fields of protestantism ...the use of it by Witnesses again becomes
of some concern ..especially as to it's veracity and origin ...and the fact that deep
hierarchy of the catholic church has so insidiously become the same venue now
used among witnesses ...

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.p...rtant-debate-today-on-fighting-for-the-faith/

 

I have American humor ? Which one do you think I incarnate the most from the two pictures below ?







Do you really want me to take up your silky and royal gauntlet ?

Edit: I'll give more thorough answers tomorrow. I won't have the time to do it before tomorrow afternoon. Sorry. Bonne nuit !

 

neither my friend for both these men are "killers" of truth ...
rather the razor of truth that finely shaves that which must
be removed for the truth to be seen ....
tho I do like the artwork of the second ...this is my opinion
of him and all who might pursue the idea of being "crusaders"

Bonne nuit !

https://poetryofprovidence.wordpress.com/the-myth-of-avalon/