So as to make sure that I'm understood properly by all, please let me add that I prefer the second because of the ideals of chivalry that go with it, along with the beauty of the "amour courtois" in which I was raised and still believe...

 

It is certainly the myth that men pursue (as well as women)
courtly love ( and it was a myth as history itself well bares
out) in fact can really only be seen in the love Christ has
for his bride ...We see the patriarchs were the 1st recorded
to love their wives (albeit with more than a few near misses)
and Hannah's husband saying "do I not love you more than
10 sons" ...realistically ...
romance ..the idea that a women is seduced by a mans
attentions and drawn into a "supposed" protective environment
(as that poor woman is weak and has no wits) rather than
equals in the inheritance of life ... No my friend it is the same
bastion of facade that covers so many fields of ideology ...
white washed outsides hiding the dark truth underneath ..
and here I will leave off of the woman's issues and of men
who still feel the need to "rule" rather than serve ...
And as I look to those whom I hold as the standard for life
who have made and abundantly supplied both in the way
of love and affection and a most bounteous household full
of every desirable thing in the way of gifts the only require
ment is that we go and do likewise ..for a certainty the only
thing God had to gain was the love and affection of his
children , those who will choose the path to learning to be
like him and his Son who so manifestly displayed the divinity
original instilled as the full character that mankind was to
be ...and lost ....you have my heart ...but you cannot
change it ...

 

Dear Jan,

I'm going to add a few thoughts regarding this post I wrote a while ago now.

Yes, even though we may not know the original languages in which the Bible was written, we have enough translations here and there to be able to get quite an accurate knowledge and understanding of the Bible and of what God expects from us.

What I meant by quoting the verse above is that we can't say, as the WT may want us to believe too, that just because Jesus talked in simple ways through illustrations and daily life expressions, everything contained in the Bible is necessarily simple and easy to understand, provided we just pray in order to understand things correctly.

In the verse quoted above, Peter acknowledged that there were things hard to understand for many, even back then whereas the apostles were still present and able to provide the necessary explanations. Even back then, there were Christians with a Greek background who didn't know much all the details in the Bible pertaining to the Jewish culture, which is why we regularly find in the NT explanations of Jewish habits or translations of expressions in Hebrew/Aramaic. How many people nowadays have a clear and accurate knowledge of the Jewish festivals, of how the Temple was built and used to be managed, of what the expressions and puns recorded in the Bible really meant ? Here is why being aware of who/what Christ's body is is important. The GB think that they can do without the rest of Christ's body regarding knowledge and management of the earthly belongings the anointed ones were given. The anointed ones need each other. That's how it is supposed to work. You can't just pray and expect the Holy Spirit to fall upon you and give you instantaneously all the answers to your questions.

But as always, despite its importance, we must keep in mind that knowledge is just a tool for lofty goals, not an end in itself.

A few years ago, I met a brother from a town nearby who was in that which we called back then the Oriental field. They would preach to the Muslims only. He told me that he knew brothers who were so learned in the contradictions between the Koran and the Hadiths that they would enjoy coming across hardcore Muslims because it was a piece of cake, even kicky oftentimes, to see them becoming pale and puzzled as to what to answer before said contradictions. He told me that it was impressive to see them becoming like liquefied before irrefutable reasonings that debunked Islam. Yet, the elder told me that he disagreed with the motivations with which those brothers were doing this because the goal of the preaching work isn't to destroy (which they were doing) but to build, to upbuild. I really did agree with him, and still do. It was a valuable lesson for me to learn.

There's nothing new under the sun. Those who know the truth about the truth and even those who think that they know more than others may be tempted to destroy others instead of endeavouring to build them up. We all may fall in that snare. Nobody is immune to the syren songs of knowledge...

 

Hi Utuna,
Yes you are right, some knowledge might be too much to bear for the weak.

Because of that I would like to enlighten those who are the strongest first.
The strongest are like a foundation, on which the weaker can be built on.

And the anointed are those who should have understand well the truth= God's word, so that they can give knowledge to the great crowd, whatever question they ask.

 

You know, one of my innermost convictions is that Satan does his utmost to destroy the least credit that the anointed ones have as imperfect humans so that nobody may follow them, give them fresh water as Jesus said, when he comes back and empowers them with what he has in store for them during the last days. Would you trust again a group of persons who have been acting like fools for decades, claiming to have God's spirit, because all of a sudden they claim having received it again for good... and that they aren't kidding this time around, that's it's for real...?

One of his methods is to make people believe that they don't exist (by making ignorant people claim that that's not a scriptural teaching) or that they are mere fools, or even eccentric nutty poor souls. He achieves that either by having them make huge and basic errors (like 1914) or by pushing wackos to say that they are anointed.

All in all, the bottom line is that nobody from the GC may well put faith in them as a result.

Besides, as they focus their minds and hearts on knowledge only, they tend to overlook love and everything that is related to it, whereas the latter is as important as acquiring knowledge, if not more (Jehovah can give you knowledge, but can he give you love if you never tried and demonstrated it towards others...?).

Here is why it is important for those who claim to be anointed not to fall into Satan's snare and at least try and work with a minimum of common sense, stringency and humility. Granted, during the last days, God's spirit will fall on Christ's brothers and give them everything they will need to know so as to fulfill their duty and mission properly. Until this day, they gotta roll up their sleeves and work up a sweat on intellectual and spiritual grounds.

The prophecies foretell that before being destroyed, the religious leaders of God's people would prophesy nonsense, be self-centered and spiritual goldbrickers and teach commands of men. It's not a question of working against God's prophecies here but I think that it isn't useless to maintain a certain level of quality in the spiritual food provided, at least as much as our modern means of communication and instruction allow us to.

 

Hi Utuna,
I am just worried and trying to help that too many anointed would not be among the 5 foolish virgins left behind.

And that too many anointed would not suffer unnecessarily, because they did not understand the will of the Master correctly.

Luke 12: 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and should start to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones.
(That's the worst option)

47 Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes.
(Second worst option)

48 But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.
(The third worst option)

Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him; and the one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him.

The best option is of course to be found faithful and discreet.

I just wonder what will happen to the "5 foolish virgins", who are left on earth, will they survive to paradise instead? Or will they be destroyed? Honestly I have not definitely figured that out?

 

5 Discreet Virgins

Don't worry, brothers....

Those who are filled with the spirit of Christ and Father cannot help but keep 'bearing witness to Jesus'. Their lamps are filled, as they constantly are trying to get filled with the spirit, and read and absorb everything they can about Christ, his life; birth, teaching, death, and the instructions from Revelation.

I recently here received a question from Joshua, I wish to answer in a few words, if I may.

He asked me, "What is worship?",....as regards our attitude toward Christ after receiving the anointing spirit of enlightenment...after being with WT doctrine all my life, then leaving it to press on toward the 'accurate knowledge of our Lord and Savior'.

Before I copy a few verses, I will state I am still a JW, as far as a literal definition goes; I witness for Jehovah. I love Him as my father; Jesus as our Lord.

To the answer;

"He delivered us from the authority of the darkness, and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him, all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible, and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones, or lordships or governments, or authorities.

"All [ ] things have been created through him and for him." (I purposely omit the insertion Franz made here in NWT '[other], for obvious reasons)

"....because God saw g

 

Doubts

Jas. 1:6-8

 

In terms of definition of worship, I like this verse :

"The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." - James 1:27

 

Hi Jan,

Sorry for the delay of my answer to you.

In my opinion, your motives are commendable and at some point, many anointed ones have had the same feelings and desire to reach out and help their anointed brothers and sisters. However, a huge problem may rise, in my opinion... You can only help someone who wants to be helped. You may be super spiritual, super insightful, super intelligent, super motivated... if the people in front of you have decided that you have nothing to bring them, it'll be like talking to walls...

Whether the brothers and sisters you want to help are still under the GB's yoke or on their own, they may well consider you either as an apostate or as a fraud because your conclusions don't match their own. That's the well-known problem of the moderate people, they are considered as apostates by the rank and file JWs and as wimps by the rabid ex-JWs. I repeat, I'm not talking specifically about you. All the anointed ones are in the same boat. One of the problem is that all the JWs have their personal and spiritual frame of mind cast into the mould of the WT. Even the ex-JWs, even if they don't want to admit to it, do follow the very same mould they were cast into for years, that is => polar thinking and knowledge is the yardstick.

That is why, in my opinion, you may try and help the many anointed ones who are susceptible to having gotten past and over the stumbling block of the WT and of knowledge and may try and go further with them but regarding the anointed ones as a whole, only their Lord will be able to make them come to an agreement and unite them. They may argue with you but they won't argue with their Master when he comes to ask them what's going on...

In the meanwhile,

"Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he is deceiving his own mind. But let each one prove what his own work is, and then he will have cause for exultation in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. For each one will carry his own load." - Galates 6:1-5

As for your last question, if we compare the parable of the virgins with the other ones which broach that aspect :

"And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.’" - Mat. 25:30

"Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’â€￾" - Mat. 13:30

"Give ear, YOU men, and listen to my voice; pay attention and listen to my saying. Is it all day long that the plower plows in order to sow seed, that he loosens and harrows his ground? Does he not, when he has smoothed out its surface, then scatter black cumin and sprinkle the cumin, and must he not put in wheat, millet, and barley in the appointed place, and spelt as his boundary? And one corrects him according to what is right. His own God instructs him. For it is not with a threshing instrument that black cumin is given a treading; and upon cumin no wheel of a wagon is turned. For it is with a rod that black cumin is generally beaten out, and cumin with a staff. Is breadstuff itself generally crushed? For never does one incessantly keep treading it out. And he must set the roller of his wagon in motion, and his own steeds, [but] he will not crush it. This also is what has come forth from Jehovah of armies himself, who has been wonderful in counsel, who has done greatly in effectual working." - Is. 28:23-29

I'd say that those who will be destroyed will really deserve it. Well, what I just said is not a scoop... The five foolish virgins will really do things that show that they don't have spiritual oil :

"All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.â€￾" - Mat. 11:19

"By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? " - Mat. 7:16

Yet, this parable is about knowing when the Master comes and not being watchful. It may mean that being watchful doesn't necessarily mean not to fall asleep but also means not to be careless, shallow and maybe too not to count too much on others to do our part.

"On the other hand, whoever hears and does nothing is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The river dashed against it, and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.â€￾" - Luke 6:49

But regarding some other details about it all, I'm in the same drakkar as you...

 

It is indisputable that when we read the Bible (the NT essentially) in cursory ways or if we simply parrot that which we read everywhere on internet, we will come to the conclusion that, regarding the anointed ones and whether all should partake or not, it's an all-or-nothing pattern... and I agree to say that it's an all-or-nothing pattern but... yes, because there is always a but...

As explained here, there is more to understand in the NT than what meets the eyes of the unwary on spiritual grounds. Well, as explained in that link, there is a category of full-fledged Christians who aren't counted among Christ's brothers, among those who make up his bride, his own flesh, and who will go up to heaven with him.

That's where the all-or-nothing pattern comes in. Once we understand that most of the content of the Bible concerns those who have a heavenly hope and that the Bible foretells that some of the Christians don't have such hope, there is only one interpretation possible, that makes all fall into place; which is the Israel of God are the anointed ones only and that the New Covenant is destined to them only, hence the possibility for them only to partake of the emblems during the Memorial.

As explained here, only those who make up the bride go to heaven, only them are concerned by the New Covenant

"Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’" - Ex. 19:5-6

"For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." - Deut. 7:6

"But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies†of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." - 1 Pe 2:9

God's people, the Israel of God, are kallah, are set apart, make up a holy nation and the 144 000 are sealed out of it, not chosen out of it. The anointed ones are already chosen, which means those who will be sealed aren't chosen only. Either way, a crucial dilemma remains : what to make of those who aren't sealed ?

Only the anointed ones were bought with Christ's blood : "And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.â€" - Rv 5:9-10

Them being bought means that their sins are cleared right away, they'll reach the status of sons of God before the rest of mankind as a proof/token of what God has in store for them. The rest of mankind will have to wait the end of the Millenium before reaching that status.

Here again, it's all or nothing, because the Old Covenant and the New one were conceived to create a holy nation, a royal priesthood, which doesn't concern the GC. The Old Covenant instituted the lineage of the priests through Aaron first. He and his offsprings were appointed and anointed as such. Jesus has the authority to be king through his forebears on human grounds and can be High Priest thanks to his correspondence with Melchizedek. Jesus' blood validated him being King and High Priest and validated the possibility for his "brothers" (of which he is the firstborn) to follow suit.

"If, then, perfection was attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for it was a feature of the Law that was given to the people), what further need would there be for another priest to arise who is said to be in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek and not in the manner of Aaron? For since the priesthood is being changed, it becomes necessary to change the Law as well. For the man about whom these things are said came from another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord has descended from Judah, yet Moses said nothing about priests coming from that tribe." - Heb. 7:11-14

Thanks to the New Covenant, Kingship and Priesthood both come from Judah and is extended to Christ's brothers. Is the GC concerned by these features of the Law ? As it is written in Ex. 19:5-6, will the members of the GC who are faithful be kings and priests with Christ in heaven ? No, their faithfulness will give them everlasting life :

"Now look! someone came up to him and said: “Teacher, what good must I do to gain everlasting life?†He said to him: “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually.†He said to him: “Which ones?†Jesus said: “You must not murder, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not bear false witness, honor your father and your mother, and you must love your neighbor as yourself.†The young man said to him: “I have kept all of these; what am I still lacking?†Jesus said to him: “If you want to be perfect, go sell your belongings and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come be my follower.â€" - Mat. 19:16-21

There are plenty of biblical verses that make sense only if we take into consideration the all-or-nothing pattern in favor of the anointed ones. The GC will benefit from the NC through the establishment of God's kingdom and through : "And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations." - Rv 22:2

Therefore, if my explanations here hold water and as the Bible won't contradic itself, all the verses in the NT that SEEM to be in contradiction with them must be interpretated in the light of said reasoning. I speak about contradiction but they don't really contradict it because they are either quite generic or all-encompassing or the context and/or some other parts of the Bible may enable us to get the correct meaning. It's all intertwined and interlinked. It's all-or-nothing pattern and the only one that holds water.

As a conclusion, I repeat, it's an all-or-nothing pattern and what I explained above is wrong only if you can prove me that what is contained in the first link provided above is erroneous. In that case, I'll admit to the fact that all Christians are anointed and that the NC is for all mankind.

 

Hi Utuna,
I can't find scriptural evidence that the New Covenant is only for the anointed. Because the New Covenant is about forgiveness of sins and about becoming perfect. And that is applicable to both the anointed and the great crowd. But truly the anointed are to be "first fruits" for God. So it should mean that the faithful anointed will be perfected first with God's laws written in their hearts.

Here is one scripture about the New Covenant, and it does not directly mention anything about the heavenly destiny of those who will be included in the New Covenant.

"For it is by one sacrificial offering that he has made those who are being sanctified perfect for all time. 15 Moreover, the holy spirit also bears witness to us, for after it has said: 16 “‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.’†17 Then it says: “And I will no longer call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind.†Hebrews 10:14-17

That Jesus' sacrifice applies to all people that will have everlasting life is a fact. For example it says about the great crowd in Revelation 7:14:
"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

But there is an other covenant that applies only on the anointed and it is the "covenant for a kingdom".

“However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Luke22:28-30

 

I'm not of the 144,000. I want no position were I am over people. I have talked to Father about this many times. I want to be here on earth with a super big family. I have told father..."You designed me to live on earth, and care for it...that is what I truly want to do. I will pull weeds, clean up animal poop, plant trees, dig up dead trees...whatever the job details say is what I want to do Father. I love the smell of the earth, the taste of water. I like to grow things, make things, write, paint, cook...be with people. You have billions of people to pick your 144,000 from. You know I wouldn't be very good at that job. So if I don't get an email from you, I'll know we have a deal, right?

Your not so smart, sinner servant, not good for anything but being a care taker of your earth,
your loving servant, Domenic.

 

Hi Dominic:


Welcome to the board. I have enjoyed what you have written so far. Keep it up.

Frank

 

Hi Jan,

Please read :

Who are the firstborn ? Jesus and his anointed brothers. Will the members of the GC be firstborn ? No.

Who did Jehovah make a covenant with ? With Israel, the firstborn. With any other nation ? No. Ditto for the spiritual Israel.

What would be the "reward" for being faithful to the Covenant ?

Is that the hope of the GC ? No.

Christ's brothers are his body, his own flesh, his bride, his temple. They are destined to be in heaven with Jesus. Do the members of the GC belong to Christ's bride ? No.

Who did Jesus buy with his blood ?

Jesus bought his bride with his blood.

That's why I talked about all-or-nothing. You can't have one without the others.

Israel = anointed ones = bride = Covenant (as illustrated by the Jewish betrothal)

The GC can't be Israel because the latter is the firstborn of God. The NC was made with Israel only, with the firstborn; ditto with the spiritual one. Israel will be the firstborn if they remain faithful to the Covenant Jehovah made with them and will become priests and kings in heaven as a result.

Life comes through faith in the blood shed by Christ's sacrifice. You said it yourself.

The GC benefit from the NC but aren't part of it. It isn't by being under the NC that the GC will be saved, but by having faith in the blood shed by Christ, which validates too God's provisions so that mankind reaches back perfection, through His Kingdom.

If you're deemed righteous, isn't it because your sins are forgiven ? Righteousness through faith was given before any law was made, which shows that salvation doesn't depend on any law.

I have other ideas to develop but I'm terribly late in my personal work. Sorry. I'll resume this discussion later.

 

Hi Utuna, before drawing complicated "logical" conclusions look here what is the NC: (simply that God will put his law in the heart and thus his people will be perfect, here is no direct connection to the heavenly hope).

10 “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.11 “‘And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: “Know Jehovah!†For they will all know me, from the least one to the greatest one of them. 12 For I shall be merciful to their unrighteous deeds, and I shall by no means call their sins to mind anymore.’â€13 In his saying “a new covenant†he has made the former one obsolete. Hebrews 8:10-13

31 “Look! There are days coming,†is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.â€33 “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,†is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.â€34 “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,†is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more. Jeremiah 31: 31-34

So will not the Great Crowd become God's people?

 

Here, Jehovah is talking about Israel, his firstborn son. Yes, the heavenly hope sticks out a mile here (Rv 7:4). Interestingly, this prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet. Like many other prophecies (Jr 3:15, for example), a type was made and we're waiting for the antitype.

I don't see what is complicated in what I explained. You just gotta be literalist... Israel is the firstborn son and they will have God's law in their hearts : "For the lips of a priest should safeguard knowledge, and people should seek the law from his mouth, because he is the messenger of Jehovah of armies." - Mal. 2:7

Stricto sensu, God's people is Israel... the GC will become sons of God back again after the Millenium.

Destiny of the Great Crowd :

 

This may not be the proper place for the questions I will ask. Hopefully this will not get highjacked into discussions about aliens and other subjects. I had posted one about anointed and prophesies which went into outer space. Let’s keep this simple.

When a person claims to be anointed by Jehovah, with a heavenly hope, is it permanent? The correct answer should be a simple complete short sentence. NO!

So, ... I assume that certain individuals who have claimed to be anointed and, then have disagreements with other anointed members, should they be called apostate and disfellowshipped. This has been the case in many religious organizations. Anyone who questions authority or teachings is kicked out. Does that mean they are no longer “anointed”? Before you jump in with your opinion; don’t! Give examples in scripture to prove your point. There is a saying: “There are two sides to every story.” Actually, there are three sides. There is side one. There is side two. Then there is the truth!

The reason I bring this up is that the WTB&TS has the teaching that those “anointed” in the organization are the only ones with a heavenly hope or calling. They assume that the heavenly calling is to be one of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. There are other religious organizations who feel differently.

Supposedly, only members of the Governing Body are made up of male members who claim to be anointed. No Women Allowed! Why?

“The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the ruling council of Jehovah's Witnesses based in Brooklyn, New York. The body formulates doctrines, oversees the production of written material for publications and conventions, and administers the group's worldwide operations. Official publications refer to members of the Governing Body as followers of Christ rather than religious leaders. Its size has varied, from seven (2014–present) to eighteen (1974–1980) members. New members of the Governing Body are selected by existing members.”

“In 1980, dissent arose among members of the Governing Body regarding the significance of 1914 in Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrines. According to former Witnesses James Penton and Heather and Gary Botting, internal dissatisfaction with official doctrines continued to grow, leading to a series of secret investigations and judicial hearings. Consequently, dissenting members were expelled from the Brooklyn headquarters staff in the same year. Raymond Franz claimed he was forced to resign from the Governing Body, and he was later disfellowshipped from the religion.”

“The Watch Tower Society responded to the dissent with a more severe attitude regarding the treatment of expelled Witnesses. In his 1997 study of the religion, Penton concluded that since Raymond Franz's expulsion in 1980, the Governing Body displayed an increased level of conservatism, sturdy resistance to changes of policy and doctrines, and an increased tendency to isolate dissidents within the organization by means of disfellowshipping.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governing_Body_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses

I have removed the hyperlinks which are used in the Wikipedia article. Supposedly, the Governing Body was set up and established as the “faithful and discreet slave” in 1914-1918.

So, did Ray Franz lose his anointing? And, if a regular, earth bound JW, who is disfellowshipped for not believing in 1914 and, the “faithful and discreet slave” being only the Governing Body”; are the bound for destruction also, as apostates? What happens to the “anointed women”? Where do they fit into this plan?

Go For It!

 

One of the problems that the Watchtower had with Ray Franz is that he and Ed Dunlap were better and more thorough Bible researchers than the rest of the lot they had then and have had since. Both Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap knew that there were more people who were born again as Sons of God than would be part of the Bride of Christ and therefore there were more than the 144000 members of Christ's Bride that would have the heavenly hope. These would not partake of the emblems of the new covenant though (which is reserved only for those saved through the new covenant), no, they would partake of a different covenant which would be represented by a different loaf and cup. Remember, Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11 that the first Century Christians would first have to discern what body they belonged to (what covenant) because not all born again Christians would be part of the Bride of Christ. It was the bread that defined the "body" that you were saved under (covenant). Ray and Ed knew this, but the rest of the "Governing Body" must have been threatened somehow by this teaching, so they had to "kill" Ray and Ed by disfellowshipping them. Ray and Ed were not disfellowshipped by Jehovah, i don't think.

For it is written: “Be glad, you barren woman (the heavenly mother, the Holy Spirit) who does not give birth (through sexual intercourse); break into joyful shouting, you woman who does not have birth pains; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than those of her who has the husband.” (those born by normal sexual intercourse in the Physical Nation of Israel)+ 28 Now you, brothers, are children of the promise the same as Isaac was.(Isaac was born by Holy Spirit) + 29 But just as then the one born through natural descent* (Ishmael) began persecuting the one born through spirit, (Isaac and those also of the heavenly hope but not necessarily of the Bride of Christ) + so also now.+ 30 Nevertheless, what does the scripture say? “Drive out the servant girl and her son, for the son of the servant girl will by no means be an heir with the son of the free woman.”+ 31 So, brothers, we are children, not of a servant girl, but of the free woman. ( The Holy Spirit in Heaven) Galations 4

Physical Israel clearly had more than 144,000 physical children, so this scripture is clearly saying that the "barren woman", the Holy Spirit in heaven would have more children (Sons of God, including women) than the physical nation of Israel had through sexual intercourse and child bearing. So, there are those who are "born again" and part of the Bride of Christ (144,000) and a countless number of Sons of God, Born by Holy Spirit that are a part of the Heavenly Kingdom of God as Lords and priests but not members of the Bride.

Therefore, whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily (you do not partake of the loaf and cup of a covenant that you are not in) will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 First let a man approve himself after scrutiny,+ and only then let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup ( of the covenant that he or she is in) . 29 For the one who eats and drinks without discerning the body (covenant that he or she is properly a part of) eats and drinks judgment against himself. 1 Cor. 11

So, if you are not in the Bride of Christ, you do not partake of the loaf and cup that Jesus had with the disciples "after the meal" and "AFTER" he had dismissed Judas (who at that time was possessed by Satan the Devil).

Then Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is·carʹi·ot, who was numbered among the Twelve,+ 4 and he went off and talked with the chief priests and temple captains about how to betray him to them. Luke 22

Also, he did the same with the cup "after they had the evening meal", saying: “This cup (not the other three mentioned separately ) means the new covenant+ by virtue of my blood,+ which is to be poured out in your behalf.+(not in behalf of the "many" but only in behalf of the ones in the New Covenant) ( Not all Christians drink this cup and eat this loaf because not all are part of the Bride of Christ, whether they are "born again" or not) Luke 22

You will see a distinct difference in how the loaf and cup are described for those "born again" who are not a part of the Bride of Christ but I will not go into that now. Now, we will see a distinctly different cup and loaf from the New Covenant cup and loaf. This one is the covenant cup and loaf of the Abrahamic "covenant of faith".

And as they continued eating, (not "after" the meal as in Luke but "during the meal") he took a loaf (not the loaf of the New Covenant which was clearly "after the meal") , said a blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “Take it; this means my body.”+ 23 And taking a cup (not the cup of the New Covenant) , he offered thanks and gave it to them, and they all drank out of it.+ 24 And he said to them: “This means my ‘blood+ of the covenant,’ (no mention of New Covenant, this is the general covenant of faith) + which is to be poured out in behalf of "many". Clearly not in "your behalf" like the loaf and cup of the New Covenant was, but in behalf of many of those with faith that are not a part of the covenant of the New Covenant. Mark 14

So, the "New Covenant" was celebrated "after the meal" and the the "covenant of faith" was celebrated "during the meal". The New Covenant was "in your behalf", or in behalf of the members of the "new covenant" the Bride of Christ (small group, not "many"). The Covenant of faith was in behalf of "many", as many as would put faith in Christ's sacrifice, (not limited to 144,000). These are clearly different loaves and cups. Be discerning! This is how Jehovah hides his message from the wise and intellectual ones and reveals them to Babes.

Ray Franz knew this, but the Watchtower was not willing to "see" it at that time, just as many don't see it still today.