I just did what you asked anyone to; I took up the challenge... Now, let the beef come... PS: I don't believe in the theory of evolution.
"Between a simple lie and a truth complicated to demonstrate, the liar always has the upper hand." I know you're not a liar; never was, never will. What I want to explain here and now is that the truth is often more complicated than we wish it was...
Hi Utuna, I'm not at all fixated on the C14 technique. I just wanted to indicate that when I was doing my studies the C14 method was taught to us as "truth" which is now no longer the case. A lot of things are changing also in the science where some things were deemed as absolute. Now they're not sure anymore about the constant of the speed of light and recently that some insights might even have impact on the relativity theory of Einstein. So even science is changing, so how can anyone say with 100% certainty how the situation has been regarding the creation of the physical universe and life? Since I'm interested in science I'm open to a lot of opinions but as far as the bible goes, I'm accepting what is written down. So if the bible is linking raising mountains etc with the flood, than I'm more inclined to accept scientific viewpoints that would support this vision. Although I'm not saying with 100% certainty as well. The only source of truth is the Bible. Up to now the Bible has always been in line with science, so why not on this? And most important, this has no influence on our relationship with our heavenly Father. Once we're in the new world, we might get to understand all details and maybe all of us were wrong
Source Mid-Atlantic Ridge The North American and Eurasian Plates are moving away from each other along the line of the Mid Atlantic Ridge. The Ridge extends into the South Atlantic Ocean between the South American and African Plates. The ocean ridge rises to between 2 to 3 km above the ocean floor, and has a rift valley at its crest marking the location at which the two plates are moving apart. The Mid Atlantic Ridge, like other ocean ridge systems, has developed as a consequence of the divergent motion between the Eurasian and North American, and African and South American Plates. As the mantle rises towards the surface below the ridge the pressure is lowered (decompression) and the hot rock starts to partially melt. This produces basaltic volcanoes when an eruption occurs above the surface (Eyjafjallajökull in Iceland) and characteristic basalt “pillow lava†in underwater eruptions. In this way, as the plates move further apart new ocean lithosphere is formed at the ridge and the ocean basin gets wider. This process is known as “sea floor spreading†and results in a symmetrical alignment of the rocks of the ocean floor which get older with distance from the ridge crest. Evidence for this process comes from the magnetic properties of the erupted basalt. The Earth’s magnetic field has been shown to “flip†occasionally so that the North and South magnetic poles reverse with time. Basalt contains minute magnetic minerals that take on the direction of the Earth’s magnetic field at the time of eruption. These polarity reversals are therefore recorded in the rocks forming at the Mid Atlantic Ridge every time the Earth’s magnetism changes from a normal field (as it is today) to a reversed field (as it was about 0.78 million years ago). When these variations in the magnetic rocks are mapped on the ocean bed they are seen to line up in a series of alternating “magnetic stripesâ€, rather like barcodes. The significance of the magnetic stripes was only revealed when their ages were discovered from dating magnetic reversals in volcanic rocks accessible on land. The dates revealed that the Atlantic Ocean was opening by seafloor spreading from the Mid Atlantic Ridge at a rate of about 0.02 metres per year. This means that North America and Europe are moving away from each other at about the rate it takes for your fingernails to grow.
I keep seeing questions about how old something is earth dinosaurs creative days. and the answer is its not possible to place an accurate date on the earth because its in motion within a solar system that is also in motion. and according to Albert Einstein's theory on relativity the faster in object is moving the more time slows down!. however it is possible to look at the bible and radio carbon dating and translate the radio carbon dates to be quite accurate if you take into account that. man sitting on earth would say 7 thousand and a man measuring from a rocket ship 1 say 7 days. so I used the algebra formula again for you and earth is 45 thousand years old or 4.5 billion years. the creative day is 6428.67143 assuming exact light speed constant by the god who created us.
Yes, I'm sure that that's not what I ever meant here (or about you ever) or ever wrote and... yes again, each and every drivel that the Creationists churn out day in day out is like a gob spat right at the face of every believers in God, among whom I'm one of the most fervent partisans, as you sure are too. Thanks for posting something of relative scientific quality. As for the Global Expansion Tectonics, I definitely don't think that it is possible because for our planet to get bigger in such ways; matter doesn't come out of the blue and it isn't a balloon either. Seismic tomography has shown many features hidden deep inside our planet and nothing is anywhere near those alternative theories so prevalent on Internet. I've been busy this weekend but I'm preparing an interesting post about seismic tomography and the discoveries this technology enabled us to make. Bonne nuit !
As far as I'm concerned if it's not in the Bible it's theory, and there are a lot of those out there. I don't believe men blindly, and believing anything Evolutionist say as fact is putting your trust in men... Period... Ish 2:22 "For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man, Who is only the breath in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?" Psm 146:3 "Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation." It's your opinion that what Creationist say is drivel, SO WHAT?????????????? I say what Evolutionist say is drivel, that means we both have our own ideas and theories. Why put your trust in men??? Both sides are theories, and you put your trust in a worldly understanding, and that blinds you to objectivity. These same Evolutionist who say life is millions of years old say you came from apes, the theories I presented say man came from God, yet creationist are more blinded????? I know your better rationally then this... Global Expansion Tectonics is just a theory, I only posted it because it contradicts the normally excepted plate tectonics/Pangea theory. I study every angle that's available, and then still do not except any of it as fact, ever... But if I were to look at the idea, there was water above the earth that enveloped it before the flood. This water could have been of great quantity, perhaps all of what we see in the seas. When that water fell to earth that would have greatly added to the mass of the earth. But at which point it would have required Jehovah to expand the earth within days... Again, I do not have a stance as it pertains to science. I study them all, and only present an alternative to what you post, simply because it is another alternative, that is the definition of debate. Have you ever been in a debate class? Sometimes you don't get to choose the subject, and sometimes you don't even agree with it, but yet you are expected to present it's view to the best of your ability. I do not believe in fact unless it's in the pages of the Bible. That's just me...
I'm sorry. I should have known better. I'll post something about seismic tomography in the following days because I said I would and will then move on to more spiritual things. Tsaphah and you must be right.
Since when I was a teen, I have always been fascinated by geology because it enables us to "read" a landscape... Here is the same as what I said above, but better said : Source Geologists usually correlate sedimentary rocks based on their fossil assemblages, particularly on the presence of index fossils. William “Strata†Smith first recognized in the early 1800s that the fossil record has changed systematically through time. Smith used this observation to correlate rock units throughout England and make the world’s first geologic map. Again, the principle is simple: for example, all rocks with trilobite fossils [see Photo 7] in them are Paleozoic in age, whereas rocks containing dinosaur fossils are Mesozoic. No rock layers contain both trilobites and dinosaurs (or dinosaurs and humans), so these distinctions can be very clear. In fact, the names of the eras in the Geologic Time Scale reflect the relative ages of fossil assemblages: Paleozoic means “ancient life,†Mesozoic means “middle life,†and Cenozoic means “new life.†Further subdivisions of the time scale, such as Periods and Epochs are also based on changes within fossil assemblages with time (for example, dinosaurs are in rocks of the Mesozoic Era, Tyrannosaurus rex is only found in the Cretaceous Period of the Mesozoic). Josh, you said that no scientific evidence would change your mind ever. I respect your stance and as a result, this post isn't destined to you or against you. It is destined to those who don't believe in the 7x7k theory.
In actuality I don't have a mind set on any worldly explanation of the fossil record. I've even said before that time could have been different before the flood, explaining why it appears life is millions of years old. I've also conversely said man could be wrong about the age of life by our current dating methods. I don't have any idea, I wasn't around before the flood. The only reason I contradict the modern acceptance of the age of life on earth is purely scriptural. As you know I believe the creative days were the same length, and until there is evidence to indicate that this was not the case (scripturally) then that is the direction I will lean, putting my chips on the Bible first, over secular mans understanding. I am more then aware that secular science that is taught in school contradicts a young life, I study just as much as you during the day, if not more, including every subject that flashes through my mind however, with each subject there are always contradicting theories that I will always explore as well. If you do not give credence to an opposing view you will find yourself in the trap of Dominec. Jehovah is capable of anything, and as you start to separate his interaction with this planet you get a world that has simply progressed through the ages without any external force acting on it. Well, we know this isn't true for Jehovah has acted on the major structure of this planet many times including the flood, therefore how can we be so dogmatic about how life has progressed through time if Jehovah has clearly intervened in the progression of this planet many times including the flood? A strange secondary effect of the idea that life is millions of years old yet the flood actually happened would be, where is all the life that died from the flood? The flood usually answered this question with what we see in the strata. Remember, sea life was the first creation before land animals, so you would expect to see that in the strata.
Life has nearly been wiped off the surface of the earth on several occasions in the past and according to the fossil records, most of the species extinct were marine life. The three aforementioned periods correspond to the most massive extinctions. Most of the JWs and Creationists fight the theory of evolution with arguments that are more than 40 years old. That's why I decided to flesh out Domenic's thread about Neandertal... Whenever I read the arguments that most people say against the theory of evolution, I can't believe my eyes... Many things have sure been debunked, but many things also have been refined or even confirmed beyond scientific doubt. Anyway... I know you stick to the Bible no matter what... and I respect that stance... but the scientists aren't all morons who don't know what they are talking about...
I can object again, and keep in mind, I only do this because there are just as many people in the world who believe the most commonly held sciences are wrong, as there are that say their right. Remember my jam jar experiment? You have different types of soils and then shake it up and you get different layers right? Now what if you had different life forms in that jar as well as you shook it up, what would happen? Well here you go, a science theory that can be backed up by observation; Source Liquefaction: The Origin of Strata and Layered Fossils "SUMMARY: Liquefaction—associated with quicksand, earthquakes, and wave action—played a major role in rapidly sorting sediments, plants, and animals during the flood. Indeed, the worldwide presence of sorted fossils and sedimentary layers shows that a gigantic global flood occurred. Massive liquefaction also left other diagnostic features, such as cross-bedded sandstone, plumes, mounds, and fossilized footprints. Sedimentary rocks are distinguished by sharply-defined layers, called strata. Fossils almost always lie within such layers. Fossils and strata, seen globally, have many unusual characteristics. A little-known and poorly-understood phenomenon called liquefaction (lik-wuh-FAK-shun) explains these characteristics. It also explains why we do not see fossils and strata forming on a large scale today. Examples of Liquefaction Quicksand. Quicksand is a simple example of liquefaction. Spring-fed water flowing up through sand creates quicksand. The upward flowing water lifts the sand grains very slightly, surrounding each grain with a thin film of water. This cushioning gives quicksand, and other liquefied sediments, a mushy, fluidlike texture.3 Contrary to popular belief and Hollywood films, a person or animal stepping into deep quicksand will not sink out of sight forever. They will quickly sink in—but only so far. Then, they will be lifted, or buoyed up, by a force equal to the weight of the sand and water displaced. The more they sink in, the greater the lifting force. Buoyancy forces also lift a person floating in a swimming pool. However, quicksand’s buoyancy is almost twice that of water, because the weight of the displaced sand and water is almost twice that of water alone. As we will see, fluidlike sediments produced a buoyancy that largely explains why fossils show a degree of vertical sorting and why the world’s sedimentary rocks are usually layered sharply. We will first consider several common situations that cause liquefaction on a small scale. After understanding why liquefaction occurs, we will see that a global flood would produce liquefaction—and these vast, sharply defined layers—worldwide. Finally, a review of other unusual features in the earth’s crust will confirm that global liquefaction did occur. Visualize a box filled with many rocks. If the box were so full that you could not quite close its lid, you would shake the box, so the rocks settled into a denser packing arrangement. Now repeat this thought experiment, only this time all space between the rocks is filled with water. As you shake the box and the rocks settle into a denser packing arrangement, water will be forced up to the top by the “falling†rocks. If the box is tall, many rocks will settle, so the force of the rising water will increase. The tall column of rocks will also provide great resistance to the upward flow, increasing the water’s pressure even more. Water pressure will exert a lifting force on the rocks for as long as the upward flow continues. This is similar to an earthquake in a region having loose, water-saturated sediments. Once upward-flowing water lifts the topmost sediments, weight is removed from the sediments below. The upward flow can then lift the second level of sediments. This, in turn, unburdens the particles beneath them, etc. The particles are no longer in solid-to-solid contact, but are suspended in and lubricated by water, so they can easily slip by each other." I only posted a few paragraphs here, I invite you to go to the page and read on, and do please read the whole article before commenting, I know your a fan of making sure others do the same...
this depends entirety on if your using mans measure of time based on solar orbit. or using the time table Einstein calculated for a object moving at light speed! now that somebody besides me did a little math I'm going to bug the heck out of the discovery chanal and see if I can get them to do it too! a whole new world of bible accuracy opens up when you convert the mentioned time to light time!
Hi Barry, You may be interested in reading the original abstract submitted by W. F. Libby, August 15, 1967 titled History of Radiocarbon Dating. I posted 2 links in my post #6 in topic History of the world. http://e-jw.org/showthread.php?1051-History-of-the-world&highlight=radio+carbon
Seismic tomography I'm sorry for being so slow but 99% of my scientific stuff is in French and it's a tall order to find what I want in English. [video=youtube;Hrto0nIP8nk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrto0nIP8nk[/video] Depth : a) 500 km and b) 2850 km
How satellites help scientists nowadays ! Mapping the mass distribution of Earth’s mantle using satellite-derived gravity gradients The dynamics of Earth’s mantle are not well known. Deciphering mantle flow patterns requires an understanding of the global distribution of mantle density. Seismic tomography has been used to derive mantle density distributions, but converting seismic velocities into densities is not straightforward. Here we show that data from the GOCE (Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer) mission can be used to probe our planet’s deep mass structure. We construct global anomaly maps of the Earth’s gravitational gradients at satellite altitude and use a sensitivity analysis to show that these gravitational gradients image the geometry of mantle mass down to mid-mantle depths. Our maps highlight north–south-elongated gravity gradient anomalies over Asia and America that follow a belt of ancient subduction boundaries, as well as gravity gradient anomalies over the central Pacific Ocean and south of Africa that coincide with the locations of deep mantle plumes. We interpret these anomalies as sinking tectonic plates and convective instabilities between 1,000 and 2,500 km depth, consistent with seismic tomography results. Along the former Tethyan Margin, our data also identify an east–west-oriented mass anomaly likely in the upper mantle. We suggest that by combining gravity gradients with seismic and geodynamic data, an integrated dynamic model for Earth can be achieved. Source
Bog bodies and body preservation over time (might help to get them bodies fossilized after a while....) https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Bog_body
Seismic tomography simply tells you what is there, it says nothing as to how, when, or how long it took to get there.