I've said before you don't need life to create oil, we have created oil and tar without life in labs. It is also a FACT that no one knows exactly how oil is formed in the earth. If oil could have been created in the 4000 years since the flood, then oil could have been created in the 14,000 years life was on earth before the flood. Simple math. You still haven't given a clear answer. You presented a PDF that claims the flood was a local event and not world wide, which also claims other humans survived the event. So since you claim the PDF as science fact then you believe this is the case?
Let me introduce the Siljan Ring to you ! Source The Siljan Ring (Swedish: Siljansringen) is a prehistoric impact crater in Dalarna, central Sweden.[SUP][1][/SUP] It is one of the 18 largest known impact craters on Earth and the largest in Europe, with a diameter of about 52 km (32 mi). The impact that created the Siljan Ring occurred when a meteorite collided with the Earth's surface during the Devonian period, about 377 million years ago.[SUP][2][/SUP] The effects of the impact can clearly be seen in the bedrock in the area. The Cambrian, Ordovician and Silurian sedimentary rocks deformed by the impact are rich in fossils. The area around the Siljan Ring has been the site of recent prospecting for oil and natural gas, though none of the projects has so far been commercially viable. There are large deposits of lead and zinc near Boda at the eastern edge of the Ring. There are several lakes in the vicinity, the largest of which is Siljan on the south-southwestern edge of the crater, with the smaller Lake Orsa to the west and Skattungen and Ore on the northeastern margin. Origin of the oil under the crater : Source ABSTRACT Organic geochemical assessment of seep oil from the Upper Ordovician (Hirnantian) Boda Limestone and solid bitumens from the Middle Ordovician (Darriwilian) limestone formations in the Siljan Crater, Sweden indicates their generation primarily from peak oil window maturity, clay-rich marine source rocks that contained aquatic algal organic matter and was deposited in an anoxic environment. Biomarkers indicate some significant differences between the seep oil and solid bitumens and their alteration by moderate to severe biodegradation. The Solberga quarry seep oil from the Boda Limestone and Solberga-1 solid bitumen from the Skärlöv–Seby–Folkslunda Limestone equivalents do not show signs of mixing and the similarity in their biomarker distributions indicates a genetic relationship. However, solid bitumens recovered from cavities in the underlying Segerstad and Holen limestones were derived predominantly from clay-rich source rocks that contained mixed marine and lacustrine algal organic matter and minor inputs of prokaryotic organic matter, possibly from thin beds of calcareous rocks interbedded within the main clay-rich source rocks. It is inferred that the Siljan Crater seep oil and solid bitumens were generated from the organic rich Upper Ordovician Fjäcka Shale, a source rock for economic accumulation of oil in the eastern Baltic region, and/or from Silurian shale units. The presence of various compounds of known biological origin and existence of organic rich Fjäcka Shale/Silurian Shale units are consistent with the biogenic origin of Siljan Crater petroleum. Although these seep oil and solid bitumens were generated at peak oil window maturities, the intense heat generated by meteorite impact caused secondary reactions resulting in unusual distributions of maturity sensitive aromatic hydrocarbon isomers and conflicting molecular maturities. Origin of oil and bitumen in the Late Devonian Siljan impact structure, central Sweden - ResearchGate. Available from: http://www.researchgate.net/publica...vonian_Siljan_impact_structure_central_Sweden [accessed Jun 27, 2015]. More conclusive information here about it : The geochemical analysis of the trace oil showed that it originated from the Ordovician shale, and the geologists concluded that Gold’s claims about its abiotic origin were untenable. In light of the new data from the wells, Richard R Donofrio – one of the original research team – updated its report in 2003 and said that nothing had been found to affect its conclusions. So it would still seem that fossil fuel derives from ancient organisms. to be continued...
All of this has nothing to do with you. As you already know, I don't take no guff from anybody ! As I already said, I can't stand the Creationists because they spread lies and insult God and those who believe in Him. I'll add more details and answer your latest questions tomorrow. I'm tired tonight. Bonne nuit !
Because I'm not a liar but honest and legit.... Source The secret of sedimentary rocks 10/26/10 The third phenomenon is depositing: ‘logically, it occurs when the transporting agent disappears, as in the case of ice, which melts, or when it slows down. In the latter case, the deposit is carried out depending on sedimentary structure: in ripples, in dunes, etc. Certain of these structures are characteristic of a very particular environment. Granulometry of the sediments, their size, etc., also instructs us about the nature and the speed of the transporting agent.’ (...) The fourth and final phenomenon: the post-sedimentary evolution which will transform the sediment into rock. In mixes (to summarise briefly) compaction phenomena under the weight of the following sediments which consists of a reduction, through physical or chemical methods, of their original thickness and physico-biochemical modifications (evolution of organic matter, precipitation of materials between the grains, cementation, dissolution, etc.) which form the diagenesis. ‘It might be an extraordinarily long phenomenon, which takes millions of years, as is the case for sand and clay,’ stresses Frédéric Boulvain. ‘But, and this is a recent observation, that can also be very quick. On beaches in tropical zones, we have thus found rock formations which contained…Coca-Cola bottles! The sandstones of tropical beaches are thus as hard as concrete even if they have only been formed in several dozens of years.’ And diagenesis is also the crucial moment of the appearance (and the development) of porosity. Important, as it is this porosity which allows rocks to become reservoirs (water, gas, petrol).
Let me share something with you if you don't mind. I happen to think it is the evolutionist who will take more death upon themself then will creationists. You know, I tend to back those who believe in God other then those who lie in the power of the wicked one. We can continue supporting creation, and those who believe in God, or we can continue to most fervently and passionately present flat out lies about the Bible. If I were to post something about the Eskimos surviving the flood then I hope anyone here would put me in my place, but yet you've presented such material as fact, and have even laughed that anyone could think otherwise, for, "this is science." lol The flood only washed up the mountains, and did not cover them in the flood? Shame on you for allowing such worldly influence get the better of you. The Bible is the first and last word. Evolutionists will have more deaths on their hands then creationists. And those who believe the first six creation days were of different lengths then the 7th have the burden of proof, because there is nothing to say the are not, and until you can prove that scripturaly, they are. That's if you take the Bible as the ultimate word, but maybe you don't, I'm starting to wonder. Please don't let me offend you but, is Saturday longer then Sunday? "Do not look to nobles, nor to mere human beings who cannot save." You do know your the minority on this subject here, in fact the only one who thinks life is millions of years old, you know that right?
Flynn Creek Crater Source : - conodonts found in immediate crater infill indicate marine environment Source : The Flynn Creek impact structure is located in northeastern central Tennessee, on the northeast flank of the Nashville dome. Remapping the structure has better delimited the depositional history and impact structure evolution. The structure contains many features characteristic of complex impact structures: concentric normal faults, central uplift, shatter cones, impact breccia, and a modern internal drainage system. In addition, it contains some distinctive impact-related compressional structures, such as thrust faults and buckle folds in the modified crater rim. Four persistent, almost circular, concentric faults delineate the structure, which has a maximum diameter of 4.7 km. This estimate, however, is larger than the previously projected 3.8 km. Structural and surface geologic data indicate impact deformation extended farther from the central uplift than previously demonstrated. The almost circular shape of the impact structure suggests the bolide that produced the impact map have descended in an almost vertical trajectory. Stratigraphic relationships, breccia compositions, possible coeval hydrothermal dolomitization in the impact breccia and modified crater rim, and conodont fossils corroborate impact during the Late Devonian. Source
Middlesboro Crater, Kentucky (PDF file) Source : How could the Flood have formed coal fields so intertwined within the faulted structures of the ground overthere ? More details here about Kentucky for those who may find that subject of interest.
Crooked Creek Crater, Missouri How come the Creationists may happen to say that the upside-down and "cleverly" sorted sediment layers covered the whole planet... when very old craters can be spotted all over the USA and beyond......??? PDF file below : http://www.missourigeologists.org/Meeting2004/AMGguidebook2004.pdf
I have slews of other examples.... but I won't spend the whole day on my computer debunking fairy tales....
Is the power of discrimination of your mind so rusty all of a sudden that you can't read a simple scientific text without stumbling on the first sentence that makes you wince and without putting things in perspective so you understand what this discussion and my arguments are all about ? It seems that you don't have problems doing so while reading the articles written by the Creationists even though they contradict basic common sense or your own belief since you don't believe that the Earth is 6 000 yo only... Anyway... I'll add a few examples more in the following days and leave this discussion that manifestly leads to nowhere.
I keep asking, but you still haven't answered so therefore all I have to go buy is what you present. For the third or fourth time, do you believe the flood was a local event?
This isn't Utuna's answer but mine. Let’s see. . . . Was the biblical account of the flood; local, or global? What does the bible say? “Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.†(Gen 7:4 NIV) Not only does it tell when it will start, it says, “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.†(Gen 7:11 NIV) The account gives the exact time of the event. It also says that springs from what is known as ground water reservoirs was released along with the “waters from the water†(Gen 1:6-8a NIV) “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.†So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.†(Gen 1:6-8a NIV) It appears from this description that there was a large volume of water in the upper ionosphere that was separated by the “sky†(lower atmosphere), and the oceans on the surface of the earth. (Gen 1:9-10 NIV) It is also apparent that the lower atmosphere didn’t have rain clouds. “. . .for Jehovah God had not sent rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground. And mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.â€(Gen 2:5b-6 LITV) From what the bible says, so far, there were three sources of water. 1. a source above in the ionosphere. 2. The seas/oceans. 3. springs under the earth = ground water. The waters mentioned as being separated were those in the ionosphere and the seas/oceans. (Gen 1:6-8) It had never rained! The existing groundwater springs, which created rivers, were the source of surface water. The Flood: Here is a description of the Hebrew word for flood (mabbuwl : maw-bool’) according to Strong’s: flood, deluge. a. Noah’s flood that submerged the entire planet earth under water for about a year ++++ Some think Noah's flood was only local. However the description of it found in Gen. 6 through 8 makes this patently absurd. If it was local, Noah had 120 years to migrate out of the area to safe ground! Why waste all that effort building a ship? With the possible exception of Ps. 29:10, this word always refers to Noah’s flood. This Hebrew word is a compound of maw = what kind, for what reason, and buwl = increase, outgrowth, to carry away. The description given in Genesis, of the water says, “They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.†That is about 23 feet above the highest peak. Enough to insure the following; “Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth.†(Gen 7:22-23 NIV) Also, “The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.†(Gen 7:24 NIV) I’ve seen and recorded local flood events in my previous employments throughout my life. I’ve experienced them in many different states of the USA. I have never seen, or recorded a local flood, that lasted 150 days. This entire event lasted more than a year. (Gen 8:13-14 minus 7:11) I also have never experienced a local flood that lasted more than a year. Most local floods last a week at the longest. The evidence of this global flood is apparent on every continent on the earth. All you have to do is use Google Earth, not Google Maps. Zoom in to about an altitude of 1,000 miles and you will be able to see the “folds†in the earth in some areas, especially in the Afghanistan, India, Himalayan areas. There is also the hypothesis that the continents had once formed a single landmass, called Pangaea. http://www.britannica.com/place/Pangea Of course a person can believe anything they want. “Still a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest†- The Boxer, Lyrics by Paul Simon
Thank you for having written that post !!!! Ps 104:9 - CJB You determined a boundary they could not cross; they were never to cover the earth again. Psalm 104:5-7 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. In a second decastich the poet speaks of the restraining of the lower waters and the establishing of the land standing out of the water. The suffix, referring back to 'rts, is intended to say that the earth hanging free in space (Job 26:7) has its internal supports. Its eternal stability is preserved even amidst the judgment predicted in Isa 24:16f., since it comes forth out of it, unremoved from its former station, as a transformed, glorified earth. The deep (t[SUP]a[/SUP]howm) with which God covers it is that primordial mass of water in which it lay first of all as it were in embryo, for it came into being ex hu'datos kai' di' hu'datos (2 Peter 3:5). Kiciytow does not refer to thwm (masc. as in Job 28:14), because then 'aaleyhaa would be required, but to 'rts, (and the masculine is to be explained either by attraction) according to the model of 1 Sam 2:4a, or by a reversion to the masculine ground-form as the discourse proceeds (cf. the same thing with 'iyr 2 Sam 17:13, ts[SUP]a[/SUP]'aaqaah Ex 11:6, yaad Ezek 2:9). According to v. 6 b, the earth thus overflowed with water was already mountainous; the primal formation of the mountains is therefore just as old as the t[SUP]a[/SUP]hwm mentioned in direct succession to the wbhw thw. After this, vv. 7-9 describe the subduing of the primordial waters by raising up the dry land and the confining of these waters in basins surrounded by banks. Terrified by the despotic command of God, they started asunder, and mountains rose aloft, the dry land with its heights and its low grounds appeared. The rendering that the waters, thrown into wild excitement, rose up the mountains and descended again (Hengstenberg), does not harmonize with the fact that they are represented in v. 6 as standing above the mountains. Accordingly, too, it is not to be interpreted after Ps 107:26: they (the waters) rose mountain-high, they sunk down like valleys. The reference of the description to the coming forth of the dry land on the third day of creation requires that haariym should be taken as subject to ya'aluw. But then, too, the b[SUP]a[/SUP]qaa'owt are the subject to yeer[SUP]a[/SUP]duw, as Hilary of Poictiers renders it in his Genesis, 5:97, etc.: subsidunt valles, and not the waters as subsiding into the valleys. Hupfeld is correct; v. 8 a is a parenthesis which affirms that, inasmuch as the waters retreating laid the solid land bare, mountains and valleys as such came forth visibly; cf. Ovid, Metam. i. 344: (from Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament: New Updated Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc. All rights reserved.) Psalm 74:14 74:14. Leviathan. Leviathan has often been identified as a crocodile, which were found mostly in Egypt (where it symbolized kingly power and greatness), but also sparsely in Palestine. However, the multiple heads here and the fiery breath in Job 41:19-21 make the crocodile identification difficult. Alternatively, Leviathan has been depicted as a sea monster (see Isa 27:1). Support for this is found in Ugaritic texts, which contain detailed descriptions of a chaos beast, representing the seas or watery anarchy, in the form of a many-headed, twisting sea serpent who is defeated by Baal. There is a close affinity between the description of Leviathan in Isaiah as a "coiling serpent" and the Ugaritic Baal epic, which speaks of how the storm god "smote Litan the twisting serpent," which is described as having seven heads. In both cases there is a sense of the god of order and fertility vanquishing a chaos monster. In Akkadian literature there is a creature named bashmu that is described as having six tongues and seven mouths. In one text bashmu is named alongside other fabulous creatures including one with two heads and one with seven heads. The latter is also pictured on a cylinder seal. This seal shows four of the heads hanging limp while the battle continues with the remaining three. Several other passages in the Old Testament mention Leviathan, but most of them speak in terms of God's creative act that establishes control over watery chaos (personified by the sea serpent). In Isa 27:1, however, that struggle between order and chaos occurs at the end of time. It may be that the fall of Satan, portrayed as a seven-headed dragon in Rev 12:3-9, also echoes the Ugaritic image of Litan as "the tyrant with seven heads." Biblically, Leviathan would therefore most easily fit into the category of "supernatural" creature (like cherubim) as opposed to natural or purely mythological. As such it may appear in extrabiblical mythology, as well as being symbolized by something like a crocodile (as in Ezek 29:3, though Leviathan is not specifically referred to in that context). (from IVP Bible Background Commentary: Old Testament, Copyright © 2000 by John H. Walton, Victor H. Matthews and Mark W. Chavalas. Published by InterVarsity Press. All rights reserved.) A bit more here about it. Sea McClintock and Strong SEA In biblical cosmology the sea, the heavens, and the earth (or dry land) constitute the basic structural components of the universe (Ps 135:6; Hag 2:6; Acts 4:24; Rev 5:13; etc.). At creation God collected the waters covering the earth's surface into "seas" of fixed limits and stocked them with living creatures (Gen 1:9,20; Job 38:8; Acts 14:15; Rev 14:7; etc.). The dry land that thus emerged was itself anchored in subterranean seas (2 Sam 22:16; Ps 18:15 [MT :16 ]; 24:2), the same waters whose gushing forth contributed to the Great Flood (Gen 7:11; 8:2). God the Creator maintains mastery of the seas. His power stirs up the sea's fits of rage and thunderous roar (Isa 51:15; Jer 31:35; Jonah 1:4); His rebuke sub-dues and silences them (Ps 89:9 [MT :10 ]; Isa 50:2; Nah 1:4). God's parting of the Red Sea was, for biblical writers, the classic example of His might (Ex 14:21; 15:1,4; Josh 4:23; 24:6; Ps 78:13,53; Acts 7:36; Heb 11:29; etc. cf. His parting of the Jordan River, Ps 114:3,5). Jesus' calming of the stormy Sea of Galilee testifies to the same might (Matt 8:24-27 par.). The psalmists commanded the sea to roar in praise of God's righteous rule (Ps 69:34 [MT :35 ]; 96:11; 98:7). Four seas figure prominently in the Bible. Along the west coast of Palestine lies the MEDITERRANEAN SEA , which the Bible calls "the Great Sea" (Hebr. hayyam haggadôl, Num 34:6; Josh 15:12,47; Ezek 47:10,15,19; 48:28), "the western sea" (hayyam ha'ah[SUP]a'[/SUP]rôn, lit. "the aftermost sea," i.e., to their backs [as they faced E], Deut 11:24; 34:2; Joel 2:20; Zech 14:8; AV "uttermost," "utmost," or "hinder sea"), "the sea of the Philistines," (Ex 23:31), or simply "the sea" (cf. Acts 10:6,32; 17:14; 27:30, etc.). Its waters ferried building materials for the temple from Lebanon (1 Kings 5:9 [MT :23 ]; 2 Chron 2:16), the prophet Jonah toward Tarshish (Jonah 1), and Paul to Rome (Acts 27; 28:11; 2 Cor 11:25). Its location to Palestine's west probably explains the use of the Hebrew word yammâ to mean "west" (e.g., Gen 13:14; Num 2:18; see NATURAL FEATURES VIII). (from International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, revised edition, Copyright © 1979 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.) Please compare with : Isa 24:18-23 - NIV Whoever flees at the sound of terror will fall into a pit; whoever climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare. The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake. The earth is broken up, the earth is split asunder, the earth is thoroughly shaken. The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind; so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls — never to rise again. In that day the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon; they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days. The moon will be abashed, the sun ashamed; for the Lord Almighty will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before its elders, gloriously.
2 Peter 3:5 [That by the word of God] By the COMMAND of God. "He spoke, and it was done." Compare Gen 1:6,9; Ps 33:9. The idea here is, that everything depends on his word or will. As the heavens and the earth were originally MADE by his command, so by the same command they can be destroyed. [The heavens were of old] The heavens were formerly made, Gen 1:1. The word "heaven" in the Scriptures sometimes refers to the atmosphere, sometimes to the starry worlds as they appear above us, and sometimes to the exalted place where God dwells. Here it is used, doubtless, in the popular signification, as denoting the heavens as they "appear," embracing the sun, moon, and stars. [And the earth standing out of the water and in the water] Margin, "consisting." Greek, sunestoosa. The Greek word, when used in an intransitive sense, means "to stand with," or "together;" then tropically, "to place together," to constitute, place, bring into existence-Robinson. The idea which our translators seem to have had is, that, in the formation of the earth, a part was out of the water, and a part under the water; and that the former, or the inhabited portion, became entirely submerged, and that thus the inhabitants perished. This was not, however, probably the idea of Peter. He doubtless has reference to the account given in Gen 1: of the creation of the earth, in which water performed so important a part. The thought in his mind seems to have been, that "water" entered materially into the formation of the earth, and that in its very origin there existed the means by which it was destroyed afterward. The word which is rendered "standing" should rather be rendered "consisting of," or "constituted of;" and the meaning is, that the creation of the earth was the result of the divine agency acting on the mass of elements which in Genesis is called "waters," Gen 1:2,6-7,9. There was at first a vast fluid, an immense unformed collection of materials, called "waters," and from that the earth arose. The point of time, therefore, in which Peter looks at the earth here, is not when the mountains, and continents, and islands, seem to be standing partly out of the water and partly in the water, but when there was a vast mass of materials called "waters" from which the earth was formed. The phrase "out of the water" ex hudatos refers to the origin of the earth. It was formed "from," or out of, that mass. The phrase ""in the water'" di' hudatos more properly means "through" or "by." It does not mean that the earth stood in the water in the sense that it was partly submerged; but it means not only that the earth arose "from" that mass that is called "water" in Gen 1, but that that mass called "water" was in fact the grand material out of which the earth was formed. It was "through" or "by means of" that vast mass of mingled elements that the earth was made as it was. Everything arose out of that chaotic mass; through that, or by means of that, all things were formed, and from the fact that the earth was thus formed out of the water, or that water entered so essentially into its formation, there existed causes which ultimately resulted in the deluge. (from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)
The excerpts above are for me like an epiphany; like when, 7 years ago, I didn't know what to make of the WT as a whole and when I first read Robert's writings.... I then told to myself... I knew it, I knew it ! OMG ! I felt the same today... I needed a key for all of this. I found it ! The last piece of a laborious puzzle has found its way home...
2 Peter 3:5 By the word of God - not by a fortuitous concurrence of atoms (Alford). Of old - 'from of old:' from the first beginning. A confutation of their objection, 'all things continue as they were FROM THE BEGINNING OF CREATION.' Before the flood, the same objection to the possibility of it might have been as plausibly urged. The heavens (sky) and earth have been FROM OF OLD, how unlikely that they should not continue so? But the flood came in spite of their reasonings; so will the conflagration of the earth come in spite of the "scoffers" of the last days, changing the whole order of things (the "world" [kosmos], 'order'), and introducing the new heavens and earth (2 Peter 3:13). Earth standing out of, [sunestoosa] - 'consisting of,' 'formed out of the water.' The waters under the firmament were at creation gathered together into one place, and the dry land emerged out of, and above them. In, [di' hudatos] - 'by means of the water,' as an instrument (along with fire), in the changes wrought on the earth's surface, to prepare it for man. Held together BY the water. The earth arose out of the water by the efficacy of the water itself (Tittmann). Berosus, the Chaldean, records the tradition in Babylon of a great flood under Xisuthrus, who built the ark. So the Egyptian and Hindu monuments. The Chinese record a great flood under the emperor Yao. So the Greeks, under Deucalion and Pyrrha. The beginning of established government is referred by the Greeks to Minos; by the Hindus to Menu; the Assyrian Nines; the Egyptian first mortal king, Menes: all have the root MEN, which appears in Nimrod. (from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)
2 Peter 3:5 [By the word of God the heavens were of old] I shall set down the Greek text of this extremely difficult clause: Ouranoi eesan ekpalai, kai gee ex hudatos kai di' hudatos sunestoosa, too tou Theou logoo, translated thus by Mr. Wakefield: "A heaven and an earth formed out of water, and by means of water, by the appointment of God, had continued from old time." By Dr. Macknight thus: "The heavens were anciently, and the earth of water: and through water the earth consists by the word of God." By Kypke thus: "The heavens were of old, and the earth, which is framed, by the word of God, from the waters, and between the waters." However we take the words, they seem to refer to the origin of the earth. It was the opinion of the remotest antiquity that the earth was formed out of water, or a primitive moisture which they termed hulee, a first matter or nutriment for all things; but Thales pointedly taught archeen de toon pantoon hudoor einai, that all things derive their existence from water, and this very nearly expresses the sentiment of Peter, and nearly in his own terms too. But is this doctrine true? It must be owned that it appears to be the doctrine of Moses: In the beginning, says he, God made the heavens and the earth; and the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Now, these heavens and earth which God made in the beginning, and which he says were at first formless and empty, and which he calls the deep, are in the very next verse called waters; from which it is evident that Moses teaches that the earth was made out of some fluid substance, to which the name of water is properly given. And that the earth was at first in a fluid mass is most evident from its form; it is not round, as has been demonstrated by measuring some degrees near the north pole, and under the equator; the result of which proved that the figure of the earth was that of an oblate spheroid, a figure nearly resembling that of an orange. And this is the form that any soft or elastic body would assume if whirled rapidly round a center, as the earth is around its axis. The measurement to which I have referred shows the earth to be flatted at the poles, and raised at the equator. And by this measurement it was demonstrated that the diameter of the earth at the equator was greater by about twenty-five miles than at the poles. Now, considering the earth to be thus formed ex hudatos, of water, we have next to consider what the apostle means by di' hudatos, variously translated by out of, by means of, and between, the water. Standing out of the water gives no sense, and should be abandoned. If we translate between the waters, it will bear some resemblance to Gen 1:6-7: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of, b[SUP]a[/SUP]towk, between, the waters; and let it divide the waters from the waters: and God divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; then it may refer to the whole of the atmosphere, with which the earth is everywhere surrounded, and which contains all the vapours which belong to our globe, and without which we could neither have animal nor vegetative life. Thus then the earth, or terraqueous globe, which was originally formed out of water, subsists by water; and by means of that very water, the water compacted with the earth - the fountains of the great deep, and the waters in the atmosphere - the windows of heaven, Gen 7:11, the antediluvian earth was destroyed, as Peter states in the next verse: the terraqueous globe, which was formed originally of water or a fluid substance, the chaos or first matter, and which was suspended in the heavens-the atmosphere, enveloped with water, by means of which water it was preserved; yet, because of the wickedness of its inhabitants, was destroyed by those very same waters out of which it was originally made, and by which it subsisted. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)