My situation is different, I left my card in a hall that I do not go to. For surely I would be disfellowshipped for opening the Bible against the Governing Body, and there is no sense in being dfed when it is avoidable. I also don't want to feel like I am decieving people by saying I'm a JW if I've been disfellowshipped, even though I haven't been dfed by Jehovah.

So with my card in a hall I do not attend, I can pretty much preach to all the elders and past friends without repercussions, I do it through Facebook and sms, since I don't physically see them anymore, one elder though called me and is working with my brother behind the scenes to have me dfed. But I will not give the Pharisees an audience. My brother has also been spreading the word about my presumed heresy to everyone and is also spreading rumors that I am mentally ill, saying I have Aspergers, etc.

 

I'm sorry to hear that brother; ad hominem is a common tactic used to avoid having to think about a contrarian idea.

Moving to your Luke 21 thread, since it's relevant here.

 

I do not quite agree with that comparison. All the people of Nineveh have repented. That is why Jehovah delayed the destruction. Differently, very few people converted at the time of 1975.

 

This is just my personal opinion only. But I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Russell had lived for several years after 1914. Would he have taken the time to re-examine his beliefs on the 1914 teaching? Would he have started over? He thought the Kingdom had been established in 1874 and that Armageddon was coming in 1914. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1916.

In my opinion, I think Rutherford picked up the 1914 teaching and then ran with it.........when he should have tossed it aside and went back to the drawing board to re-examine what the Scriptures say.

 

I think Russell was a humble man and would have re-examined the Bible from scratch and would have come back from his mistakes. Hardly I think the same from Rutherford. A Watchtower of some time ago explained that when he was in prison and the vote about the new president was going to take place, he was very anxious. It's more like someone who was afraid of losing his leadership than of someone who trusts in Jehovah and humbly accepts what God has in store for him.

 

A prophet in the years leading up to the appearance of the Messiah in the first century was someone who announced imminent judgment from Jehovah God as far as the nation of Israel was concerned. They never heard from the prophets when the nation was being faithful in their covenant with Jehovah. And they always came from outside the "establishment," so to speak, and never from among the leaders of the sons and daughters of Abraham. This was to test the humility of those leaders, surely, for they would have to not only listen but demonstrate a willingness to admit their grievous error. We haven't had a contrite leader, secularly or among Christians, since King David after he was called out by his lifetime friend, Jonathan, about the whole Bathsheba stretch in David's walk as a believer. Nor can I be convinced that there weren't snickers and whispers among the people of Israel as word spread, probably from the top, down to the general population about this great offense before Jehovah.

Anyhow, Jehovah has always let His people know what was going to happen if they didn't repent and turn around. And He did this by raising up prophets.

As to determining if a prophet was, in fact, a false prophet, this is what the Hebrew scriptures provide:

“But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you." — Deuteronomy 13:5, NASB
​

A false prophet would also encourage Jehovah's people to follow other gods. (Detueronomy 13:2)

I see no evidence of the leaders of the Watchtower convicting them as false prophets. Yes, they made an incredible number of predictions based on their particular chronology and interpretation of what they see as unfulfilled prophecies. I believe they are doing this much less these days, easing off from the prophetic podium banging.

But I believe that they are Christians who just happen to be imperfect men like me who just so happen to be in a more dangerous position with our Father because of the authority they have over the Christians known as Jehovah's Witnesses. Would I deign to entertain thoughts of having their place, deluding myself into thinking I would be a better GB member than they? Even Satan got his lofty thoughts going.

Yes, I suppose some could argue that they match the requirements for identifying a false prophet because "they want followers," but that's a judgment that exceeds my capacity to consider. I have no idea what is truly in the hearts of these men, or what they're thinking as they go about their station in the Watchtower organization.

All I know is that they are pointing brothers and sisters to Jehovah, keeping them in expectation. Imperfectly, yes, but those without sin can start casting the first stones. And this from someone who was excommunicated by them for no longer holding to their views and assertions!

For the sake of the discussion, I'll provide a rendering of Luke 21:8 to begin:

And he said, Watch that ye may not be led astray, for many will come in my name, saying, I am, and, The time has come near. Go ye not therefore after them. — Luke 21:8, A Conservative Version
​

If we are not to go after "them," then it seems to me that "they" are the ones who claim to be the anticipated Messiah ("...the time has come near..." is, I suspect, tied with Daniel's 69-week prophecy) and come looking for potential followers. During the first century, there were, indeed, men who declared themselves the messiah, and Rome dealt pretty sternly with them. But Jesus' warning was a protection for the additional reason that Rome also put down anyone who was with these false messiahs.

As to any application of Luke 21:8 to Jehovah's Witnesses, no, I don't see it. Where the Watchtower organization is concerned, I don't see it. Are there men in positions of oversight and authority within the organization who have succumbed to their position and the power it brings them? Unless Jehovah's Witnesses have stopped being imperfect humans, I'm pretty confident in thinking there probably are. (Jude 12-13) But I believe they are in the minority, although their authoritative influence over other Christians is dangerous and is best dealt with than ignored, where possible. But the system of authority in place within the Watchtower organization has taken on a life of its own, introducing its own dangers of idolatry— and I think we all know how Jehovah feels about that.

Jehovah's Witnesses demonstrate their beliefs about Jesus and the Way and their Hope in the future through their preaching work and by aiming for congregational and individual moral cleanliness. Other Christian groups likewise "exercise" their faith through their respective works.

It just so happens that it is the prevailing view among Jehovah's Witnesses at the behest of the Watchtower organization that they were chosen out of all the other Christian groups on the world scene back in 1919, even though the Watchtower magazine was publishing Jesus' return as being in 1876 back in those years, as I recall from when I was researching the history of the movement. In other words, Jesus had already invisibly returned in 1876, according to the Watchtower organization. They couldn't possibly have been keeping watch for him to return in 1919, out of all the Christians on the world scene during those years.

And the Watchtower organization promulgates the view that we are in the Last Days where the end is imminent. Most people would start cleaning their house very different times between their company coming in a couple weeks versus 5 minutes away, so if this is what it takes for some believers to clean up their living temple, let it be so for now. The system will be done with in due course.

But I am not seeing the correlation between this and Paul's second letter to the believers in Thessalonica. The "day of the Lord" which Paul is referring to at the opening of 1 Thessalonians 2, is the judgment that is coming against Jerusalem as Jehovah destroys the Temple cult and brings an end to the Deuteronomical system of worship. Someone had apparently written to the Thessalonicans that that day had arrived when it wouldn't until 70CE. Paul proceeds to layout what pieces still needed to come into play before Jerusalem's judgment (in 70CE). (Cf Isaiah 13:6-22; Ezekiel 30:2-19; Joel 1:15; Amos 5:18-20; Zephaniah 1:14-18)

Submitted for your perusal and consideration,
~~Earthbound

PS. Please forgive me if there are any major gaffs in the above, as I'm crazy tired and way past my bedtime, but really wanted to finish this before I hit my pillow.

 

Read Deuteronomy 18:20-22
2 Peter 1:20-21
Ezekiel 13,14
Luke 21:8

A prophet doesn't need to directly lead a rebellion against Jehovah and he isn't exclusive to false gods. All he must do is Prophesy. And the quilt of the inquirer is just as bad as the Prophet's.

I'm sorry, but there is no way Rutherford nor Russell aren't false prophets. Just like water is wet, those two have Prophesied falsely.

No offense, but people need to stop defending these two. Especially Rutherford, he is part of the man of Lawlessness. He began the teaching of the presence of Christ and the Lord's day being here. 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

We have to find a answer to the questions : If those that were taking the lead among the Bible "student" now the JW.org are considered false "Prophets" by Jehovah and if He used them to preach the good news of God's kingdom, that include us also because we have preach the same message as they? Remember: Those that have seen 1914 will see the end of this system of things, or maybe, millions now living will never die. That was a "Lie" or was just not "Accurate"? False "Prophets" or imperfect "Men" ? Regent wants to know, probable we all do. Now if the "apostles" said a similar saying as just mention above, what does that make them: "False Prophets" or "Imperfect Men"? Same judgement now. WE will try to find the answer in God's Word- let's turn to Joh:21:22,23. Jesus own "Apostles" were saying ( This man now living will never "Die" before Jesus coming. Probable they were thinking, that any disciples of Christ that was younger than John would see the end to. Pretty well the same saying as "Million now living will never die". What do you think? Can we find a saying from the apostles that is similar to the now understanding of the GB of JW.org on the contemporary "generation" will see the end? In the Bible again.We will look up 1Ti:6:13,14 at the end of vs 13 Paul gives order to Timothy to observed the commandment...etc,here comes the Key words "Until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ". In other words Paul was saying, you Timothy you are part of my contemporary "generation" you will see the end of this system of things,the manifestation of our Lord.I won't but you will. 2Ti:4:6,7. How similar is it not? Were those that was taking the lead among the Bible students and the now JW.org, False "Prophets" or imperfect "Men"? Who are those imperfect men replacing? Is it not Christ? Are they and we not "Ambassador" for Christ? 2Co:5:20. If God has given us mercy,grace and love are we not oblige to do the same toward all? I remember an article in the WT just about 30 yrs ago, about the three "F" WORDS- FORGIVE- FORGET- FREELY. We will add an other word "FOREVER" False "Prophets" or Imperfect Men,like all of us. Let the words in Lu:18:13 be ours, "O GOD, be gracious to me a "SINNER" Now vs 14, "He that exalts himself will be humiliated, but he that humbles himself will be exalted". May Christ Love be with all of you, Regent

 

The MOL is composite. He who makes himself a god in God's Temple and teaches a Doctrine concerning the presence of Christ is the composite man of Lawlessness.

 

Except the Apostles didn't teach a false doctrine and disfellowship anyone who disagreed with their false doctrine. Jeremiah 5:31

There is nothing for me to forgive, I am not hurt by them, I am not angry at them, I don't think about them unless I'm debating their false prophecies. They are just celebrities to me, who are teaching wrong things.

 

Don't get discouraged.

I have been going into churches to teach and fellowship for years now. I can safely say, there has been little change or fruit at all as a result...but several pretty good arguments.

I posted that video to show you all that are scared to go into a church, because WT has convinced you the church people are sleeping in death's shadow.

I have shared the scriptures many times; Jesus says faith in him as the son of God, and his blood as sacrifice for our sins= salvation. (Book of John, scores of statements concerning that)

John 4:23,24 spirit and truth

I worked a Pentecostal church 3 times lately; got nowhere. They teach "you must speak in tongues or you do not have the spirit."

Jehovah's Witnesses teach:

Those receiving the spirit-birth are incorrect, drug users, or crazy, as that is all over!

IMO, both statements are false, so I don't attend either church.

But I read my Bible every day, and listen in and speak Jesus' words wherever I go.


Jesus' words are spirit and life. Stick with them regardless of what any church(JW is a church) says.

Can anyone agree with that?

 

Why would the son of destruction in 2 Thessalonians 2 be Judas if he was already dead at the time of the writing?

Paul gives the MOL this title, because he is like Judas, but isn't Judas.

 

But Paul said this Lawlessness has existed since his time, and since it exists up until Christ returns. This means the Man of Lawlessness is composite, because his teaching survives the death of it's teachers and has existed in some shape or form for the last two thousand years. May even go periods without existing, who knows. But the Watchtower is the only group recorded history who has taught the Lord's day is here. Specifically those words (Revelation, it's grand climax at hand).

 

Christian greetings, John,

Let me start by saying I didn't watch the video you are referring to, but I would like to respond to what you are asserting here.

I was never convinced by the Watchtower's dogmatism regarding other Christian groups, although I spent my entire time as a member of the Watchtower organization trying to believe it.

No, what *I* struggle with now is my criticism of other Christians because one of the gifts I came away with by the time I was excommunicated (disfellowshipped) was how to pick apart and tear down everyone else's beliefs and tenets, convinced that only we had "the Truth."

As a result of this engrained judgmentalism, I struggle with sitting among any other Christians because I'll spend my entire time there picking apart what they believe about this and what they said about that as I listen and watch everything I was taught by the Watchtower organization to be toward other Christian believers, robbing me of an opportunity to be a blessing to a fellow believer, one who is just trying to serve the same Father and be like Jesus had been. (Cf Psalm 130:3)

The struggle is real, and I seem to be no closer to resolving the paradox warring within me. In the meantime, I focus on pulling up the roots in my self so better things can grow. That seems to be a full-time job, in and of itself!

And in the meantime meantime, I try to live as Abraham did, out in the wilderness awaiting the city having real foundations. My tent of faith is pretty tattered from the years of time and unforeseen circumstances which have befallen my family, but the blessings which have patched the threadbare areas continue to hold firm.

And I try to follow the suggestion of Paul in his first letter to the new believers in Thessalonica:

"to seek to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you..." — 1 Thessalonians 4:11, Holman Christian Standard Bible

But I still wrestle with congregating with other believers because of my judgmental nature.

Not because I believe they're all as good as dead meat where Jehovah's concerned, and just don't realize it yet— no, because I'll spend the whole time tripping over the rafter in my own eye trying to pluck the splinter out of their eye.

And that is so sad.

I take comfort in this thought, however: that the Day will arrive when these veils that cover our eyes will be removed and we'll see things so much more clearly. When we are no longer divided over opinions and interpretations... and endowed with gifts like judgmentalism and it's parasitical self-righteousness.

~~Earthbound

 

Why would the mystery be Satan if everyone knows he is misleading the entire inhabeted Earth? It is no mystery that Satan is the one behind every deception. It has been said multiple times.

The restraint was most likely Paul, and now that he is out of the way, the man of Lawlessness is being revealed, I mean who else is taking credit for 1914? Now, Jesus can do away with the men who enforce 1914.

There is no way the son of destruction is literally Judas, he is dead. And if the Temple of God is also literal, then where is this Temple made of stones?