Okay, here are a few thoughts that are going through my head I need to write down and hopefully someone can help me with.

In Dan 2 the stone of Jehovah's kingdom hits the image at the iron and clay. The iron is Rome, so therefore it would appear that means the iron would survive all the way to the end.

In Rev 17 John tells us that five have fallen, one is and the other had not arrived, being the 7th. The one that was during Johns life, was number 6, Rome.

Now if the iron in Dan 2 is Rome and also the 6th world power, then why is the iron seen surviving all the way to the point the stone crushes the image? Granted it is mixed with clay at some point, but the iron does continue to exist until the stone crushes it.

So one would think that somehow Rome will be part of the 7th and the 8th powers. Is this not what we can take from the image?

You know what else is interesting, the image shows the stone crushing it, but according to Rev Babylon is destroyed before the stone hits the image. Not a big deal, just something I noticed. Which would actually mean that the head of the image in Dan 2 should have been cut off before the stone hits it.

Unless the image is only really to represent the idea of mans rule and not a collection of current nations. We know Babylon, Greece, Medo-Persia-Rome of course, but these entities are seen alive in Rev 13 at the end. So the image represents a line of kingdoms through time (as we know), or also a collection of current kingdoms? And we know at least the last one of the iron and clay must still be around.... Grrrrrr

 

I want this T-Shirt, lol!

 

There is a problem I'm running into...

I'm not sure we can use Rev 17:10 as a measuring tool up against the immense image in Dan 2 to determine who the 7th world power is, and here is why.

And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. (Rev 17:10)

Dan 2 and the image show only 5 entities before Gods kingdom crushes it. Now Rev 17 tells us of 7 powers (before the 8th). The one that was here during Johns time was Rome, and he calls it the 6th. The iron in Dan 2 was the 3rd power in that image.

So therefore can one say the 7th power must be the clay mixing with iron even though it's only the 5th entity in the image of Dan 2?

It seems clear that not only does Babylon, Greece, Media-Persia and Rome exist through time as shown in Dan 2, but they must exist in the time of the end as seen in Rev 13. We already know at least Babylon does because it's mentioned in Rev as the harlot.

The image in Dan 2 clearly shows that the iron survives to the end when Gods kingdom crushes it, all be it mixed with iron, but the fact remains. So therefore in some fashion Rome carries on.

My question is the clay and the 7th world power. The first idea that should come to mind is that the clay should be the Holy-Roman empire, for a number of reasons. Number one it's the very next event in the stream of history that an entity becomes part of Rome after John mentions it, and as well it matches Dan 7 when discussing three horns that were plucked up from before it.

The image in Dan 2 is missing 2 of the seven world powers if you count the clay as one. So when John says "one is" he's talking about the iron legs and the 4th entity of the image, but he calls Rome the 6th world power. So using that reasoning what is the next biblical step to claim the identity of the 7th?

It almost has to be the clay mixing with the iron... Because to say anything else would be putting more into what is there. It seems that, that is the only way to allow the Bible to explain itself, without our influence... Right?

And, if that is what the Bible is saying, then the Holy-Roman empire has to exist today as the 7th world power, and continues to rule to the end, because Gods kingdom crushes it in Dan 2.

Am I right so far???

 

I believe we can, yes.

The iron-clay is unique in the image, it represents a transition from the previous empire [Rome - Iron] into a 'human' (clay) dichotomy between the empire of Rome (Iron) and the democratic system. (Clay)

This prophecy describes the history of Europe from the time of Christ when Rome was dominant, and purely made of Iron, into the nation-state system we live in today.

Most notable in this transition is Charlemagne.

Emblematic of the prophetic description of these events, Charlemagne (Charles the Great) was as strong as iron, fancying Rome as the example of empire, yet instituted a revolution in human learning through his great public education program.

This sparked the 'clay' to entwine and shape the iron.

"His reign and the era it ushered in are often referred to as the Carolingian Renaissance because of the flowering of scholarship, literature, art, and architecture which characterize it. "

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I disagree with the assumption that BTG is equivalent to the Gold in the statue.

Babylon the Great is representative of the 'captivity' of God's people in a harlot institution. Mirroring not Nebuchadnezzar's empire, but the captivity of God's people in the institution we call "Babylon the Great"

Also note: BTG is not one of the heads, but an entity riding ON TOP.

This is not empire, but an institution with influence over the nations; A prostitute institution which holds God's people captive.

Through influencing the nations with spiritual conceptions, and wealth, SHE is unique in the prophetic schema.

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Regarding Babylon, Greece, Media-Persia as the amalgamation in Revelation 13:

Ascribing the separate entities in Daniel as the same entities in the amalgamation of Revelation 13 seems like a mistake. The beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation is ONE beast, with those three attributes.

Not three different beasts - ask yourself, why attributes of those three, composed as ONE?

Why is Rome missing from that amalgamation?

The Catholic church had influence over the nation-state system which emerged from the gradual dissolution of the Iron Roman empire; But the "Holy" Catholic church was not the empire.

The nation-states were constantly maneuvering their way around the Catholic church's influence, and undermining it.

In fact "Holy" Rome was almost extinguished by the Lombards before Charlemagne pushed them back through what amounted to a bribe from the Pope to save Rome. Subsequently he was crowned 'Emperor' bringing back the "Iron".

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What do you believe Babylon the Great represents? The clay = Holy = Roman Catholic church = Babylon the Great = clay?

 

Thanks for the response SingleCell...

You may recall that I said that myself in previous threads. Lately I've been trying to go back through this material with fresh eyes, in an attempt to make sure everything is from scripture and nothing was personal interpretation.

Is the interpretation that "clay" means "human" or democratic a personal one? Even Robert believes the clay is the democratic system as well, but how can we justify that "clay" means human in scripture without it being personal opinion?

For one, I'm not sure it falls in line with reasoning. First, all kingdoms are made up of men ruling, so they could all be said to be human.

Second, the materials each kingdom is made up of show characteristics of that kingdom such as gold for Babylon and iron for Rome. Well, the current democratic system is quite strong. In fact one could argue (quite successfully) that the democratic system is the strongest world powers on earth, and without a doubt that has ever been on earth, economy and strength. The US is the richest and strongest country ever. I'm not so sure clay fits, and I've heard the argument that it could crumble quickly, so what, look at Babylon that fell in a day, and any nation that can crumble over night.

Another thing, the iron in Dan 2 continues all the way to the end. Some how, in some way Rome appears to survive all the way to the end. It seems clear that's what is going on in Dan 2.

Now back to the clay... I'm starting to think it points to the tower of Babel. Now again, the theme of my exercise is to try not to put personal interpretation in this thing at all, so if we go back through scripture to find a material that represented a nation or group of people we could say that the bricks of the tower could fill that bill. I think it's interesting that the tower was built around 2200 BCE, and that 2520 years later brings you too 325 CE and the widely excepted point where the clay mixes with iron at the Nicene creed. That is a very common understanding apparently online...

Here is a link to what seems to be the most widely held understanding of the iron mixing with clay. HERE

I have to say, going back over this material this idea seems to fit, but please look over it and tell me what you think.

The reason I connect them is the name in Rev 17 and the lion in Rev 13. To me they both seem to point to Dan 7 and Dan 2 where both the lion and the head of gold represented Babylon.

I would have to put my foot down on this one I think, in some way Babylon the great in Rev 17 must be associated with the head of gold in Dan 2, otherwise Jehovah wouldn't have used the same name, let alone it's location at the Euphrates.

Agreed, but if you are saying that Babylon the great is a metaphor and not an entity, (idk if you are, but) I would say there is no precedence for that. There is nothing to say Babylon isn't a legal institution of some kind, and most likely a religious organization with state and sovereignty stature.

I would say Babylon the great is the lions mouth in Rev 13.

Think about this, if Babylon the great is the lion in Rev 13, the lion is depicted as the mouth, meaning the head. The head rides on top. Also look at the image in Dan 2, the head of gold is Babylon, and it rides on top.

All I'm saying with this detail is they seem to all match...

What do you think?

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What if she is both?

We know that all the other heads are nations, then why can't she be a nation and also a spiritual entity?

Being a women is fitting, given that Jehovah's kingdom is seen as a women in Gen 2 and Rev 12. Babylon the great is a bit like Satan's women, or his spiritual kingdom.

Being just a spiritual entity doesn't seem to fit all of the prophecies. It would be the first time a purely spiritual entity shows it's head, where through Daniel and Rev we see nations, and sovereign entities with territory.

Every time I look around the world there's only one name that seems to continue to pop up that fits the bill, the Holy See...

Exactly the question we should ask. So again looking around the world, I see only two entities that seem to match that description, the UN and the EU. The EU is just in your face against God even using the image of the tower of Babel as there building and posters, and upside down stars and women riding beasts outside the buildings, but that may be neither here nor there.

Then you have the UN that is a collection of countries as well...

You know, I've always held that the reason Rome is missing from the first beast of Rev 13 is because Rome is the second beast in Rev 13, one of the two horns. That at some point it merged with something, whether that be the clay/Holy-Roman empire, or Anglo-America idk yet....

Then again wait..... Let's say that Rev 13 does match Dan 2, then if that's the case the lion's mouth in Rev 13 is Babylon, Medo-Persia/bear, Greece/leopard, and the second beast in Rev 13 would be the Iron mixed with clay.....

That's an interesting thought... We also must agree that if the two horned beast is the iron clay mix it is also part of the first beast because the first beast is seen with 7 heads, that would be all the world powers before the 8th.

Again just a reminder that in Dan 2 the iron and clay survive all the way to the end.

That's got to be it, the second beast in Rev 13 is the iron and clay mix, it's the only two entities missing in the first beasts description!

I would have two points to think about on this. One, in Dan 2 the iron is seen surviving all the way down until Gods kingdom destroys it. Yes it mixes with clay, but still the iron remains, and in fact the iron clay mix together are crushed by Jehovah's incoming kingdom.

Second, the Holy See is a nation, it is a country and even a member of the UN.

Now obviously something happened along the way, because we aren't all wearing tunics. So somehow someway the Holy Roman empire is still alive...

And it's that, that I want to know...

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The problem with this idea is that from what I understand Charlemagne kept Germany and Italy on the map as the king of the north, but the king of the north pretty much died at WWII, unless..... Wait a minute...

You know, this has been this stupid battle ever since the Garden. To do Jehovah's will or not... It was at the tower of Babel, they wanted to collect together as one nation against God, and Jehovah wanted them to spread across the world. This is that same old battle with the kings of north and south, think about it. What was Romes, Germany's, Japan's ultimate goal? It was a single world government collected together in opposition to God. What was the goal at the tower of Babel? The same...

So then what took over that goal after WWII? It has to be the UN... That is the age old battle. Man wanting to combine all people and money and languages and religion into one, that has always been Satan's goal.

Which means that the Harlot is in a collection of nations that's goal is to collect all mankind together as one... We know this to be true because of the coming 8th king.

So if we take your understanding of Charlemagne and say that he kept Rome alive through Germany and Italy (which is the idea of a one world governess), then all we need to know is who took over that goal after WWII....

We might both be right, but just looking at two sides of the same coin...

So let me rehash...

While writing this I had a couple (what if) moments, and one of them being the second beast of Rev 13 representing the iron clay mix... The reason this is attractive is the other three beasts of Dan 2 and 7 are represented in the first beast and the only two missing are the fourth beast Rome and the clay...

The clay must represent the desire to collect all mankind together in a one world governess because, that was the goal of every other entity in that statue as well. I like the idea that the clay was the tower of Babel, because that was the very goal of the tower, to collect men together in opposition to God, let alone it gives compelling evidence that the tree in Dan 4 and the 2520 years would be the time between the languages being confused and that clay coming back onto the scene in 325 CE.

I also like what you brought up about Charlemagne and that he kept that goal of world domination alive in Germany and Italy, and guess who's been riding along the whole time the king of the north was put in it's place and then reestablished such as after WWII????? That's right, the Holy See...

Brother, what do you think?

 

Straight from the scriptures brother!

"Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; (more precisely, 'mortal man') but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay."

Daniel 2:43

The clay = people

That is an oversimplification! Before the formation of what became modern Europe, there is no example of a nation-state system ruled by the 'clay' through the democratic process. It is a unique formation in all of human history.

Just as it is unique in the Daniel 2 prophecy.

The 'clay' doesn't mean 'democracy'. But democracy does mean rule by the 'clay' (people).

I see no way around this conclusion comparing post-Roman history to Daniel, juxtaposed to pre-European history of empire, where the clay were serf-slaves for the oligarchy.

I think this is an oversimplification as well.

The democratic system is not strong. It has lasted in some form as a concept for 100s of years now, but look at the prophecy again:

"but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay."

Unlike unified Rome, Greece, et al, the democratic nation-state system is in a CONSTANT state of flux. It is incredibly weak; and only lasts a few decades in any region before permuting or tumult change the system.

The 'iron' keeps it stable enough to survive.

Agreed. Also consider Napoleon, and dozens of other examples of the 'iron' Roman conception being surrounded by the 'clay' of people through the democratic system.

Not to mention that Western government structures mimic Roman architecture and style. It's right in front of our face every day.


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I'll have to investigate your other comments, which are very interesting.

 

Okay, let me rephrase the question. How can you prove that the "people" in Dan 2:43 is a from of rule? I mean, at first glance it would look like it's talking about simply people that aren't in agreement with the rule of the iron, which could be for many reasons. Then the question is who is the "they" that the people are mixed with, aren't they more men or people making up the iron? And if not, how do you prove that?

My point is, do we really have a grasp on who the "people" and "they" are in Dan 2:43 as far as what scripture says they are, or are we implying a personal understanding? I know I have and do, but I'm so emphatically trying to get away from that with this thread.

The most likely explanation is that the clay is a nation, just like the other materials in the immense image, but one that has a different form, one of religion like the Holy-Roman conglomeration. The Holy See/Vatican/Roman Catholic church would have been traveling across Europe and the world collecting together subjects for itself and the Roman empire. Then of course you could see how the two don't mix in that of people converting to Catholicism but yet being under the yoke of Rome. The history of the nations brought into Rome by Catholicism is full of war, religious wars, and on and on...

The word people in the Bible appear to just be used as a collection or group of mankind, I cannot find precedence that they could infer a ruling style.

I'm not to sure we shouldn't brake scripture down to it's simplest form. It seems the only way to allow it to interpret itself. The "they" in Dan 2:43 must be men, so the "people" must be as well, men. All governments are ruled by men, so I think our understanding of the "people" as a ruling type has been in error, because that idea can not be inferred through scripture, therefore making it a personal interpretation.

I have to say that since every other material in the immense image represents a nation and that material represents a characteristic of that nation it would be wrong to change that theme. I know we could say "well that one is different", but it seems every time we do that we meet a dead end road. If we keep the theme going we would understand that the clay is a nation that is represented by clay, it's only the "people" in Dan 2:43 that we are misinterpreting. I only say this because I also at one time argued that the clay and iron were democratic, oligarchy rules just as Robert has taught, but in the end, that is only a person interpretation, I think we can go further in scripture to let it explain itself, without breaking away from it's own theme.

And maybe that's it, with prophecy we want to go as far as possible with events that have already occurred as fulfillment, because anything after will be a guess.

On that one we'll have to disagree, every oligarchy for the past 300 years has failed of has been destroyed, while the democracies have grown to concur the world with all the gold, money, military might, and power...

I keep going back to basics with this search, and the first thing that comes to mind is that age old battle, God's rule or mans. It's the stance the people had at the tower of Babel, to collect together as a one world government and religion against Gods wishes, and it seems that has been the goal of every nation in the line of 7 mentioned in prophecy.

Satan's goal of a one world government and religion shouldn't be overlooked in prophecy, it seems to be the main theme. So the statue in Dan 2 from Gold to iron to clay should all be understood as entities desiring a one world government and religion. This is the theme of prophecy from the tower of Babel all the way to the 8th king.

 

Nice post, and I agree to your major points.

One thing I might just point out that I'm not sure if you've noticed or not. Dan 12:11 is speaking of two different time periods separated by 1290 days. Just like when Rome circled the city of Jerusalem in 66 CE and then in 70 they entered the temple. So will be in the time of the end, the constant feature will be removed (WTS) and then 1290 days later the 8th king will come against the reestablished true Israel of God remaining on the earth.

 

Thanks for commenting... I always like others insights, it helps in contemplating our own understandings.

I've recently been considering that the the clay mixing with the toes of the image in Dan 2 was the Nicaean creed and the Roman Catholic conglomeration in the 4th century.

You may have already read on this thread that I said it's possible the clay in the image of Dan 2 is the tower of Babel in Gen 11. Also the heaven high tree of Dan 4. If you read the account again of the heaven high tree and the tower of Babel, it pretty much is the same story. So therefore it's possible that the 7 times were to tell us when Satan's goal of setting up his throne over the earth would be back on the earthly scene after Jehovah destroyed the tower. Given that the tower was built around 2200 BCE, and that 2520 years later brings you too 325 CE, that would be the date the clay mixed with iron and Satan's throne/Roman Catholic mixed with Iron.

Now I believe your right that Babylon the Great is not riding the beast yet because she rides the 8th king, which isn't an entity yet. But I do believe she is the lion and the mouth of Rev 13, just as the lion of Dan 7 and the head of Gold in Dan 2.

The physical location of the Vatican is a city, and in fact a nation within itself called the Holy See. So in fact it would be the "Holy See" that is BTG, being the physical city and legal nation. Constantine gave Pope Militades the land in 313 AD. In 326, the Constantinian Basilica was built on what is thought by many to be the tomb of St. Peter.

 

Singlecell...

I'm going back through Dan 11, and reading Roberts work again, as well as looking back over past posts here, such as this discussion between you and I.

What you say above, you know Robert of course thinks the same. That the clay mixing with iron is the republic form of government mixing with the iron handed rule of dictatorship.

Robert goes on to say that "clay" represents man as he is created from dust, and just as the American constitution reads, "we the people", however it should be kept in mind that the dictatorships throughout all time and even Rome itself was ruled by men, these same men made from dust. There is no difference in men ruling in a republic or dictatorship.

It is just as much of a leap to say the king of the north is the iron type rule of the Oligarchy, for Rome as a nation was clearly the king of the north at it's time, and for one to say that Rome just at some point turned into a concept or a type of rule, is a personal step outside of scripture. It is a moment one can see personal interpretation creep in.

If we go to the statue in Dan 2 for a minute, we will see that the Iron survives all the way till the point it's destroyed by Jehovah's kingdom. Now Roberts idea does support this claim, however he has Rome falling away and becoming an idea or type of rule. Should not the correct answer, and simplest be the fact that Rome itself must continue on until the end as an entity, or nation just as Babylon was, Media-Persia, Greece, any of the other nations that were part of that statue?

Now this mixing with clay, should the clay be a type of rule, or should it be a nation just as all of the other materials in the statue? Why should we depart from the core theme of the statue? In what way can someone prove that the republic form of rule is the clay? Again, one can see personal interpretation creeping in.

Why would we overlook a nation joining itself to Rome that occurred centuries ago? The Vatican city is the smallest nation in the world, however it is a nation. The land was donated by Constantine in 322. Why should we not consider this the moment that the clay mixed with the iron? It can be considered "of the people"; Dan 2:43 "Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people;" The church gathered many, many people into the Roman/Catholic rule, and as mentioned before, it was ruled by men. But more importantly, what if this clay is to be a nation, just as the other elements, then the very next nation that combines itself to Rome would have been the Holy See/Vatican. This must be the simplest and basic understanding one can come too, to understand what "nation" combined itself to Rome after Johns words in Rev 17:10? ("Five have fallen, one is, the other has not arrived")

Therefore, sense the Holy See still exists as a nation, then that would mean that the king of the north would be connected to this nation (including it) as a remnant of the Roman/Catholic empire.

You already know of my work in connecting the clay bricks of the tower of Babel and the heaven high tree of Dan 4, in connection to the clay mixing with iron 2520 years after the fall of the tower, bringing us to 325CE. Now is this idea a stretch? Perhaps, but conceptually the frame work and ideas of the tower and the original purpose of it's construction translates into the exact purpose and construction of that Roman/Catholic conglomeration, and as well into the future when it finally becomes the 8th king.

This understanding will help us identify the entities in Rev 13, IMO.

 

I've never said emphatically that Dan 4 is directly connected to Gen 11, however I have said the concept of the tower is identical to the concepts of the Roman/Catholic conglomeration. I have said that the stories are almost identical. I have also said that the Catholic church/the Holy See is the modern Babylon. I have also said that it can be argued quite convincingly that Babylon must be the death stroke that was healed in Rev 13, for it is the only one of the previous 6 that comes back to life as mentioned by John in Rev 17.

I would say there is more connection to what is presented here then there is in one saying the iron and clay turn into concepts of rule, although the materials had always been nations before. There is no way to prove that those two entities turned into types of rule.

Read it for yourself, the tree of Dan 4 and the tower in Gen 11;

Dan 4:11 "The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached the heavens, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth."

Gen 11:4 “Come! Let us build a city for ourselves and a tower with its top in the heavens,"

Dan 4:12 "Beneath it the beasts of the field would seek shade, and on its branches the birds of the heavens would dwell, and all creatures would feed from it."

(To remain in one place, a single city under one rule and religion)

Gen 11:4b "and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, so that we will not be scattered over the entire face of the earth.â€￾

Gen 11:7,8 "Come! Let us go down there and confuse their language in order that they may not understand one another’s language.â€￾ So Jehovah scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city."

Dan 4:14:13 “‘As I viewed the visions of my head while on my bed, I saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from the heavens. He called out loudly: “Chop down the tree, cut off its branches, shake off its leaves, and scatter its fruit! Let the beasts flee from beneath it, and the birds from its branches."

Gen 11:9 "That is why it was named Ba′bel, because there Jehovah confused the language of all the earth, and Jehovah scattered them from there over the entire face of the earth."

If you read Isiah 14 you will see the idea of Babylon as a throne for Satan, even his own words are told to us in versus 13 & 14!;

"You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens. Above the stars of God I will lift up my throne, And I will sit down on the mountain of meeting, In the remotest parts of the north. I will go up above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself resemble the Most High."

This was the purpose of the tower and the Roman/Catholic combination.

So the Catholic church is represented as the modern Babylon, and it's construction began between 318 & 322, and if you count back 2520 years from that moment you get 2000BCE when the commonly held time Jehovah had confused the language at the tower.

There is no difference as well in the purpose of the creation of the Roman/Catholic combination. It was to rule the world, Rome used that small nation to accomplish what no one had before, to concur the known world.

So with it's worldly dictatorship and it's false religion Satan began again to build his one world order, and this combination is still here and poised to become the 8th king in the time of the end!

The clay=Bricks of the tower

 

Although I may disagree that the iron and clay turned into forms of rule, it's quite possible that Robert is partially right about the final outcome of whom these nations are. He just may be getting there down a different road.

I was having a discussion today with a dear brother, and a couple of key points that came out in that discussion play a role in this subject on this thread. (And I will try and keep it as simple as possible, for you can imagine this conversation was pretty deep.)

First off, it can be said that Dan 7 is a 1:1 mirror of Dan 2 and the immense image. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Therefore the small horn coming from the fourth beast must be the the clay mixing with iron in Dan 2.

Now, what is the very next event in time after it's rise that some entity combines with Rome? Is it not the adoption of the Catholic church? Also, keep in mind that the Vatican sits on it's own land and is considered a nation, and that nation was built between 318 and 322.

Now, how does Dan 7 describe this entity?

Dan 7:8 "While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it."

And who were these three horns? None other then three of the ten providence of Rome, being Heruli, Vandals and Ostrogoths. These three fell before the Roman Catholic Church during the following centuries!

How about the words it spoke?

Dan 7:8b "And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly."

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Pope Pius IX said “I alone… am the successor of the apostles, the vicar of Jesus Christ. I am the way, the truth, and the life…â€

Pope Boniface VIII said “We declare, say, define, and pronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.â€

Pope John Paul II said “Don’t go to God for forgiveness of sins: come to me.â€

Current Pope Francis I said “You cannot find Jesus outside the Church.â€

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Dan 2:42 "And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile."

A good depiction above of the state of the Catholic church. It's nothing more then a nation made up of no more then 109 acres! It differently needed it's iron Rome friend to keep it safe.

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Dan 2:43 "Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people."

Again, a great depiction of how Rome used a little nation (Vatican); "And because of their alliance with him, he will carry on deception and rise up and become mighty by means of a little nation.", and it's purpose was to concur the known world. Although most nations hated the Roman empire, once they became Catholic the had no choice but to be under it's yoke!

Why is the iron mixed with the people? Because that's what the church brought to Rome, the people, and a lot of them from all nation of the known world and even down to our day.

It is following this clay form down to our day that we will be able to identify how Rome has changed it's form, but make no mistake that Rome according to prophecy still exists today!

 

As well, something else to consider;

Dan 7:4 “The first one was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were plucked out, and it was lifted up from the earth and was made to stand up on two feet like a man, and it was given the heart of a man."

If you notice, this correlates directly to the heaven high tree.

Dan 4:15,16 "But leave the stump with its roots in the ground, with a banding of iron and of copper, among the grass of the field. Let it be wet with the dew of the heavens, and let its portion be with the beasts among the vegetation of the earth. Let its heart be changed from that of a human, and let it be given the heart of a beast, and let seven times pass over it."

Notice, Dan 7:4 is showing us when Babylon is restored! It's wings are plucked, so it's not going to be as mighty or as quick as it was.

Then it was lifted up from the earth. Remember when the tree was cut it ate the grasses of the field as an animal on all fours.

Then notice in Dan 7:4 it's made to stand up on two feet again, and then given a heart of a man! This is after it was given a heart of a beast in Dan 4:16.

So therefore it must be concluded that Dan 7:4 occurs 7 times after the cutting of the tree, and this depicts it's rebirth!

PS: As well, this heart of man is another sticking point for the clay equaling Babylon. The clay mixing with the iron is said to mean mixing with mankind/people, because Babylon is reborn and given the heart of a man and stands on two feet as a man, hence the clay being made up of the people.