Thanks for sharing...

We all must blaze our own paths in this world, and return our talents to our Lord when he returns. So with that said, there is at least one thing for sure that I agree with you on, and that's is this;

It seems to be we are at a stage in this world that it will take the kingdom coming to this world to change anything. With the internet and the ability to search any subject, people have become more locked into their own understandings, and less likely to listen. In my opinion...

 

I did not ask you why you disagreed with what was said about Jesus, I specifically asked you to discuss what you disagreed with that was presented.

My quote:

That would have included any and everything presented in this thread, including the idea that the belief in the trinity may not disqualify someone from salvation.

So you disagree with that assumption, and that's fine, what two individuals here agree on all aspects of scripture? This forum exists for the expressed purpose of discussing such differences, Its very reason and purpose.

I speak for only myself when I say it has become my understanding that the qualifications of survival rely on faith, and that faith is made manifest by works. All other matters are in our Lords hands as to who will survive or not. If one still believes in 1914, if they believe Jesus never had a beginning, or what have you, becomes a matter for our Lord to determine salvation. This is an opinion of mine that comes from what I currently believe about our Fathers love is, misunderstanding of scripture does not disqualify someone from salvation.

Perhaps there will be cases that someone was taught the true nature of God, and refused to let go of the trinity, and worshiped in a way not excepted by God, I don't know, I'm not the judge, but what I have said here is it's my opinion that a misunderstanding of what scripture is saying does not necessarily disqualify someone from salvation if all other qualifications are met.

This is my opinion, and not one I expect all others to adhere to, and if you feel this opinion is "dangerous and beyond what is written" (As you have said) then that is your opinion, and I respect you for that, however if you feel that violates your service to Jehovah then that is a matter for you to work out as it pertains to your association with us.

In my opinion...

 

Hmm, have I? Maybe you just didn't get a chance to read my post thoroughly, so I'll go ahead and quote with you my response again, and this will be from post #28, everyone feel free to look back with me;

Here I said the two witnesses are given their work when the end begins, I DO NOT believe the end has begun.

I believe as I said here above, Joshua of Zech 3 is not plucked from the fire until after the first trumpet, and I DO NOT believe the first trumpet has blown.

Then I repeat the question you asked me;

And then I answer it straight out;

So, what I actually said was "if" he (being Jehovah, or our Lord) called upon me to fulfill that role, I would except the responsibility he would be asking of me.

That's what I said, but yet you claim "I believe I am", and have "indicated" that? I am starting to see signs of slander, am I not? By all means quote from any of my words where I have claimed what you yourself are saying, "that I am one of the two witnesses".

 

Yea, and who would want to volunteer for that? It is our flesh that works against us in doing Jehovah's will. My flesh wants to party it up and do what It wants, but we sacrifice our fleshly desires to do his will, and it should be no different in our commissions from him, our responsibilities before him. If he calls us to do some work, then we should be prepared to say, "here I am send me!" And again, that is "if", I say "if" he calls us for some work...

Ish 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!”"

I believe those miracles by the Two Witnesses are the trumpets and bowls. If you look at the miracles the two witnesses perform, such as fire and water into blood, these are the very things that occur in the trumpets and bowls, it is my belief that the Two Witnesses announce these events to the world.

I really believe this will be a time of drawing together, and a new temple built, not by military force, or by power, but but Jehovah's Spirit. (Zech 4:6) A spiritual temple where all mankind can come too, to understand the true faith and prepare for when our Lord returns.

Luk 18:8 "Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?”

I believe this is a single event in time, just before the end. At the moment the Two Witnesses are resurrected there is an angel that comes down from heaven with everlasting good news to declare to all the world, and it will be this moment that will begin the separating of sheep and goats, as people start to choose their loyalty. The one who created the heavens and the earth, or the 8th king.

Rev 14:6,7 "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.”

Yes, yes.... Agreed...

Yes, and it is my belief this moment of outpouring occurs deep in the time of the end.

IDK brother, the more I look at this world, and the more I mature spiritually, it seems only one thing will end all debates in this world, and that is the very first day of the new world... In my opinion...

Zech 3:9b,10 "I will take away the guilt of that land in one day.’ “‘In that day,’ declares Jehovah of armies, ‘Each of you will invite your neighbor to come under your vine and under your fig tree.’”

 

This is exactly the way I feel brother... Thank you for your comments here.

I've wanted to open a thread about this subject for a long time, but I wasn't sure how to approach it, because it seems no one I know gives it much thought. But I would like to discuss what a new spiritual temple in the time of the end would look like, what the message of the Two Witnesses should focus on, and what kind of structure (on paper, physical, spiritual) this new temple should have.

If you like I'll go ahead and start a new thread on that subject.

 

And this I think, in my opinion, we should all keep in mind. Not that we know what is to come, for right now we don't even know what the next day will hold.

Mth 6:34 "So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles."

But we should be ready for any work our Lord calls us too.

2Tim 2:21 "So if anyone keeps clear of the latter ones, he will be an instrument for an honorable use, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work."

We don't know what the future holds, but what I do know is those who have been given more, more will be expected.

Luk 12:48 "Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."

In my case I know he has given me understanding of scripture in abundance, because I have requested it. I don't know if or when he would ask me to have more responsibility then I do now. Maybe these website that I run are the limits of my responsibility, and I'm doing it, how do I know???? But all I do know at this moment is I want to serve Jehovah and his kingdom, and I want his will for me, for him to direct my steps.

One day my Lord will return and ask for his talents back, and he has entrusted great wealth to me, and I hope I can make it grow. Only I know what he has given me, and entrusted to me...

 

Okay, we've come across this understanding before, no one panic, we'll walk through it...lol

With all Christian love brother, don't take my being forward as aggression, it is not, I just need to be straight forward to address what you have presented.

This first statement isn't accurate at all... Jesus is in no way is God with God, Jesus has his God even when sitting on Gods throne.

Psm 45:7 "You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

In no way does scripture ever discuss Jesus as equal to his Father in their relationship. Jesus is only ever spoken of as equal to his Father is it pertains to all other creation. Angles bow to him, and so will humans. But as far as their relationship to each other, Jesus is subject to Jehovah.... Period...

You need to study what the term God means, it is only used to discuss superiority in the context used. Humans are spoken of as gods, fallen angels, what have you. It is only a term of authority.

The term "God" is not a name, or title, it is simply to denote rullership, or status. With your reasoning you put Satan into onesness with Jehovah, because he is spoken of as god, and this is blasphemy. (2Cor 4:4) No, the intent of Jesus words was to say there is only one superior God, there is only one who should be worshiped, there is one above even him, a single almighty. He was saying there is a God above his Godship.

Brother, there are may gods;

1Cor 8:5 "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,"

You CAN NOT use the term God as you are doing, it can be used to speak of anyone in a position of authority, even humans in scripture are spoken of as being gods.

You understand I'm sure that in the original text all letters were capitalized, so capital letters have no role in determining how the term god is used.

You are connecting dots that aren't even there. By your train of thought then Satan could be included in your scenario, since he is called the god of this world. It could also be said he is the God of this world, and the GOD of this world. There is no such thing as capitalizing having anything to do with the context of using the term god.

When you have the son of God saying there is only one God, he is speaking of his God. The one that has more authority then himself, and there is only one with that, Jehovah.

You are applying what was first created here, into heaven. Women were created trillions of our years after Christ, so your saying Christ can be considered a wife because he is the one that gave life? Jehovah gave life to Christ Jesus, so is Jehovah his own wife? Does scripture ever describe Jehovah as having a wife? I've heard this scenario before and it's ridiculous, with all do respect wives were only spoken of first with Eve, period end of story.

Implying that man was made into "our" image means there must be a wife in heaven is personal interpretation that is not supported by scripture. The creation of man in their image is part of knowing good. Think about it, the very first lie was about being "like God" knowing good and bad. It is about knowledge...

Wrong, Psm 45:7 and Hebrew 1 clearly tell us that God has a God. What you are doing is taking Jesus words that "he and the Father are one" and trying to say they are both the one God, and I'm here to tell you that's wrong. Jesus also prayed that his disciples would be one with them, just as he is one with his Father.

Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Jhn 17:21 "so that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me."

With this comment above you have now convinced yourself that "There is one God" represents both Jehovah and Jesus, and respectfully I suggest you re-look at that idea, because it is in error. Jesus was telling you about the one authority greater then himself.

Dear Sir, what you are doing here is describing the Trinity, with all do Christian concern for your spiritual sobriety, I would highly recommend you revisit this understanding, because you are going beyond what is.

 

How do you know the scripture isn't talking about millions?

Gen 1:26 "Let Us make man in Our image."

"Us" could be any number more then one can't it? So "us" could equal millions. To say "us" means only two would be an interpretation without direct scriptural certainty.

More so then this, you'll need to convince me that "In our image" includes the concept of male and female, as in giving life. I do not see this explained in "Let Us make man in Our image."

Bible Hub

"In our image, after our likeness.--The human body is after God's image only as being the means whereby man attains to dominion: for dominion is God's attribute, inasmuch as He is sole Lord. Man's body, therefore, as that of one who rules, is erect, and endowed with speech, that he may give the word of command. The soul is first, in God's image. This, as suggesting an external likeness, may refer to man's reason, free-will, self-consciousness, and so on. But it is, secondly, in God's likeness, which implies something closer and more inward. It refers to man's moral powers, and especially to his capacity of attaining unto holiness."

I do not see a concept that allows us to translate the male and female type relationship to Jehovah and Jesus. First off Jehovah created Jesus, which means he was alone, then created him. Then Jesus created everything else, that in itself excludes Jesus creating himself. He was present in all creation, including himself, so without him nothing was created, however Jehovah was the creator of him. So would Jehovah be the women form, and then Jesus would be after there were two? This makes no sense, and applying gender concepts to angels is ridiculous. The concept of male and female were created in this universe. As far as we know, no female type was in heaven, hence why angels came here to have relations with women.

We do not need to apply a female concept to a creator, just being a creator is enough, I can create art, does that make me a women type? Women in our world can reproduce, but cannot create life, so how are they like God who can create life, based on your concept?

Then there is nothing in the narrative to say that creating is part of "like us". Men and women reproduce, they do not create life.

And lastly, what is the reason of applying some kind of motherly attribute to Jesus? It makes no sense.