Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Thinking, Jun 23, 2017.

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    ExLuther

    ExLuther New Member

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    I just wanted to tell you, Thinking, that your words could have come straight out of my head regarding being at the KH. I agree with you completely. It is HARD to be there at times, but I also believe it is the house of Jehovah regardless of the corruption. In fact, the specifics of the corruption within convince me even further that it is indeed the house of Jehovah right now. And as hard as it may be, there is nowhere else for me. I do agree that Jehovah wants us there if it's possible, and that we will eventually be able to do much good when things progress and there will inevitably be a lot of confusion among our brothers and sisters. If we can help them then, being there now is worth the struggle and the sighing and groaning we might endure inside. <3

    Much love to you both, Thinking and Bro T for drawing our dear sister back to share this post.
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    "Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet." - Ex 7:1 (NWT)

    I hope it helps.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Here’s a question to ask about the trinity, or Jesus, the Spirit, and God are One. Or Jesus and God Almighty are ONE. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” (Gen 2:24) ?? Really? Literally one flesh?

    And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them [Pharisees], Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” ( Mt 19:5-6; Mr 10:8; 1 Co 6:16; Eph 5:31 KJV ) Hmmmm.

    Are these speaking in the same sense as; “I and the Father are one.” (Joh 10:30) Why isn’t the Holy Spirit mentioned as being a part of the One? Oh!, Wait. “I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.” (Joh 17:11) Is Jesus talking to Himself? It must be, if He and God are the same person!o_O

    that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.” (Joh 17:21) Oh My!!

    Or, how about what Paul wrote to the Corinthians. “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.” (1 Co 8:6)
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Exodus 4:16
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest


    ... Are you against or for it?
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This setting is considered to be an allegorical statement. “Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.” (NASB) In other words, Aaron will be like a lawyer (Mouthpiece), and Moses will be like God (the one who has the power to perform miracles.) (the staff turns to a serpent, etc.) The word translated God, from Hebrew is ‘elohiym (el-0-heem’), a god like one. This word can be translated to cover: rulers, judges, angels, gods, goddess’, divine ones, mighty, etc.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Against or for what? What is IT? My statement is to show the true meaning of “one”, as used in these examples as being “in union”, in agreement, having the same thinking. The translation, “be joined to his wife” does not mean they are physically joined at the hip. They are agreeable to each other. Unfortunately many that are joined together get divorced, because they have removed that agreement. There is the understanding of oneness as being “in agreement” in plans. This is the understanding of any thinking individual. Jesus and Jehovah are not one and the same person.

    Unfortunately, not everyone has the ability to think this (trinity) through. They (most people) lack the knowledge of philosophy, history, or the Bible. If they did, they would be able to recognize the “trinity” as “philosophical rhetoric”. If you were to ask a person, picked at random, to explain philosophy, you would likely get a blank stare. Go ahead; Ask them who is Aristotle, or Socrates, or Xenophanes. Ask them to explain Sophistry. Another blank stare. Their reason of not knowing? They don’t care to know. They would rather watch some guys kick a ball around. “It’s all Greek to them!” Ha Ha. If you were to ask them; “WHO is God?” What do you think they will say?

     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    She may just be a big blessing for you....and I surely hope it works out...I have put away the WTS attitude...along time ago...if you do go back,,the yoke will be light...not like it was before....if he's kicking your backside...then it's for a reason.... going back will be utterly massive for you...but the fact you can feel him...booting your bum...welll...how are you going to ignore that ..hahha.
    I have always had a special fondness for you...so please...let me know somehow ..anyhow...what you end up doing ...
    Much Grass...lol...I thought...you were on the Mary Jane again....lol....
    Mind you must say I have felt like a bit myself of late....hahah but no I didn't....
    I will be persistent in my prayers for you...my guess is you have my problem....you don't like being told what to do....but you will be okay....if hes booting you....HE KNOWS you will cope with what he is directing you to do...
    Also ...one day we will meet up....you running thru the field of flowers....with you long dark hair ......hopefully not hippy style..:rolleyes:..hahahaha
    Weeeeellllll not till after the thousand years anyway...lol;):eek:

    Biggest sisterly hug to you...xx
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    In our apologetics of who Jesus is, the following scripture tells us. He is not part of a triune god as many teach.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” ( Col 1:15-17 NASB )

    1. If Jesus is God Almighty, is he his own image?
    2. God Almighty is said to have no beginning. So how could he be “First Born”?
    3. If he is “the first born of all creation”; that means He was Created! Made by someone other than Himself!
    4. All things, everything that exists, was “created through” and “by” him, and belong to him!
    5. He is the image of the invisible God! What does that word, image, mean?

    Image = 1. a physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing, photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.
    2. an optical counterpart or appearance of an object, as is produced by reflection from a mirror, refraction by a lens, or the passage of luminous rays through a small aperture and their reception on a surface.
    3. a mental representation of something previously perceived, in the absence of the original stimulus.
    4. form; appearance; semblance.
    5. counterpart; copy.

    The Greek word used is eikon (i-kone’). In English we have the same word spelled icon, with the same meaning associated:
    a picture, image, or other representation, a sign or representation that stands for its object by virtue of a resemblance or analogy to it.

     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I had a conversation with someone on my YouTube video "Is Jesus God" and I wanted to share it here.

    Guest: "This man is a liar! NOWHERE does scripture tell us that Jesus BECOMES God after he takes the throne!! Jesus says he is ON God's throne WITH GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rev 3:21"

    Me: "I am that man... But we will have to agree to disagree at this moment... ;) That doesn't mean I can't consider you a brother. We both believe Christ Jesus died for our sins and was raised after three days, that is what is required for salvation. The details will be cleared up in the future..."

    Guest: "Joshua, I apologize for my words, as I truly did not know this was you in the video. I would have chosen my words better, had I understood, as to not be directly offensive. Many blessings to you, in Jesus Christ."

    Me: "It's okay, no harm. As I said in the video, there's been too much division, I would prefer to come together as brothers, rather then quarrel as we all have for decades. As I've matured over the years, I've come to understand that our salvation is based on our faith in our Lords sacrifice and resurrection, not on the details of Jehovah and Jesus relationship. No doubt the Trinity wouldn't be the only thing we disagree on, there's the nature of modern Israel, life after death, and many more subjects, but again I prefer to consider we are brothers, for we both have faith in Christ."

    Guest: "Joshua, I may disagree with your doctrine but your heart is certainly in the right place, and a sincere and good one at that. You have certainly shown great fruits of The Spirit! Much love in Jesus Christ."

    Me: "And you as well Sir! Thank you, and may our Lord bless you and your family, and I hope we stand shoulder to shoulder against this evil world in the end, in support of Gods kingdom!"

    Guessed: "AMEN!"

    Even though this guest misunderstood what I was saying in the video, we were able to come together in love and harmony, and gives me great hope that this approach is the correct one with those we disagree with as to details of scripture.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Good job brother! I agree.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Ha, I don't know what I was thinking there with my spelling of "guest"! Ha... Repaired though!

    Good to see you brother, with all love...
     
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    jehovahisgod

    jehovahisgod Experienced Member

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    Friend has to your original question I'm going to refer you to Matthew chapter 20 verses 20 through 25 now if Jesus was God then why could he not choose which of the Apostles with set on the right or set on the left?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The term "god" cannot be used to identify Father and Son, nor rank. There were many gods, and even men were called gods. All letters in the original writings were capital, so every instance of god looked like this: "GOD". Jesus was god, so was Satan, and so were many men. So you must understand their rankings from the context of the text in which the word appears.
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    But is it so difficult to understand this concept of God? Many seem to stumble on this subject.
    The Hebrew word used in the Bible is אֱל֫וֹהַּ (eloha). When addressed to the Creator, the word used is אֱלֹהִים (Elohim) which is the plural of Eloha and it is said to be the plural of majesty to show respect.
    Eloha means "mighty", "strong", "powerful". This term does not only apply to people; for example, Genesis tells us about the big tree near Shechem, the one where Jacob buried the foreign gods, by using the word Elah. It is also the name of the valley where David killed the giant Goliath and it may be that the valley was named because of the events that took place there.
    So there is no objection to giving the title of God to Jesus, even the Bible does, for example in Isaiah 9:6: His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
    Therefore, we can also say that Mary was the mother of God. Not of the almighty God, but the Divine person who came from heaven on earth and redeemed us. That has nothing to do wi the Trinity and I am 100% sure that Joshua would never spread that teaching.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You are correct Sir... I only care what the Bible says, and it does give the title of God to Jesus, but Jesus also has a God, which means his father is higher rank then he is.

    And besides Jesus was created, and the Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active force, so the Trinity is simply a Babylonian influence set up to confuse would be true followers of God.
     

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