Rob, the NWT is one of the best translations you can read, if not the best. Don't believe everything you hear, I'll address John's comments later...
Dear JohnS, what I'm concerned about is directing a new one to believe how we believe. The JW's have a sound foundation in basic scriptural knowledge, and a very good study program. They are closer to the truth then any other religion. With that said, my comment was this: "you are the only one here that I am aware of John that believes all are born of Spirit and can have a heavenly hope." I did not say you were the only one follows what Jesus taught, that is ridiculous. We don't need posturing, come on... This statement above is where we differ. I think a new one should understand that not everyone may agree on this subject, and have a perspective into certain understandings of Scripture. I believe all numbers in Revelation are literal, and have shown this to be so a any number of occasions. The Watchtower does NOT believe all numbers in Revelation are literal, case in point the 3 and half days the Two Witnesses are dead. What this direction does is cause conflict... Why would you want to cause conflict with a new one to Scripture who is just starting out studying what the Bible actually says? The Witnesses know who the true God is, the know what the true kingdom is, they know what happens after death, and what the soul is, and they teach these basic Bible truths.... These are things Rob could greatly benefit from. Don't attempt to cause division. You would have him sit down after printing off your post and question men donating their time to assist this gentlemen in learning basic Bible truths.... Come on man, I know you can be more patient then this... Let the man get a foundation...
The Watchtower loyalists have committed adultery. For one, Jesus said adultery is the only ground for divorce. Not even if you are being beaten, financially neglected, or your spouse apostatizes, May you divorce. If your spouse is one of these three, you can physically separate from them, and ignore their existence. But you may not remarry or divorce, unless the other half commits adultery. And if they don't, then so be it. "Those who endure to the end will be saved." Pick up your torture stake and suffer.
Rob, the NWT is the best translation you could use. I've studied all available, and there are many dozens... the NWT is the one I use 80% of the time... Have no concerns on that fact... Others would have you start questioning those who would assist you in learning about the Bible, don't concern yourself with those things. The JW's that want to meet with you, and do so without pay, and donate their time only to assist you, nothing more. They have the true knowledge of who the true God is, who the Father is and who Jesus is, and you wont learn that truth anywhere else. They have the truth of what Gods kingdom is, and what happens to the souls of mankind, and many more subjects. JW's understand the basic foundations of truth in scripture. It is only some prophecies of the time of the end we here have some difference on with them, and you have plenty of time to address those things down the road. Again dear friend, it is my opinion the study with JW's is the absolute best place to start, they are there to help you learn, with nothing in return, and they understand the basic foundations of truth...
We are not to pray to Jesus, he told us directly who to pray to John... Mth 6:9 "You must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified." The Father is who we are suppose to pray to according to Jesus own words, and what name is to be sanctified? Jehovah... The most commonly used translation...
It's ok to use. What is the difference between the great crowd that comes out of the great tribulation that can't be numbered and the 144,000 who are obviously numbered? And why is the 144,000 figurative but not the seven scrolls, 1260 days, 2 Witnesses, etc. ?
JohnS, we do not share this understanding as a whole here at e-JW.org. We believe the hope of mankind is what it has always been, to live in paradise on earth forever. In no way does scripture discuss those unapproved living on after Armageddon. Those surviving into the new world will have washed their robes clean and be approved to live into a paradise earth. Psm 104:5 "He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever." Psm 37:29 "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it."
I'm sorry, Joshua, I believe in following the Bible. NWT altered Jesus' words, as can be checked in any Greek interlinear Bible; New Living Translation; John 14:13,14 13 "You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. 14 Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!" Wescott and Hort (Greek master text WT used in 'translating' their NWT) literal Greek; "...and what likely you should ask in the name of me this I will do, in order that might be glorified the Father in the Son; if ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do." Now, notice how WT destroyed this verse; "Also whatever it is that you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name I will do it." You see the evidence here how they did not truthfully enter the correct translation. And it is a major lie. We are all supposed to be "One" with Jesus, and have his spirit, along with Jehovah's inside us. We are supposed to be WITH Jesus, and he WITH us, inside us. The term is, 'in Christ, and Christ in you.'...also which NWT changed 100 times to 'in union with', as if it is a mental consent. Wrong. This is called plagiarism, and when done intentionally to take people away from the spirit-birth, it is super evil, and Satanic. Rob, read Book of John, first, before you even talk to Witnesses. Then compare what they are saying the Bible says, as you already will know. You can read the whole book in 1 1/2 hours easily. Is this bad advice Joshua?
Yes, you end a prayer in Jesus name, that is asking in his name, but we follow Jesus instruction to direct our prayers to "Father". I see no difference in the translations you offered, they both say the same exact thing. We are to direct our prayers to the "Father" as he told us in Mth 6:9, and then ask in Jesus name, ending the prayer... There is no translation in the world that is approved by God, there is no such thing. What we have is a hundred translation with all their own wording. Any translation you choose I can pick apart as to it's accuracy with the Dead Sea Scrolls... It is still my opinion a new one will do just fine with the NWT. Let him start with the best first choice, then branch out if desired as more is understood. I've said it already, I highly suggest a good foundation in a new ones study of scripture, and since JW's understand the basic truths of scripture that is the best place to start. It is my opinion a new one should study the fundamentals such as the nature of God, the fact that Jesus was created, the nature of the soul, the kingdom of God. JW's teach these basic facts about scripture. You give a man a fish and he will go hungry again, you teach him to fish and he will feed himself for life. You can hand a man a Bible and say "read it", or you can direct him to study with those who understand the basics of scripture in order to teach him to fish for himself.
No, not at all... You are very welcome here, it's just that there can be differences of opinions, and differing levels of understanding in scripture. This is the very reason for this forum, to discuss those differences, but we want to encourage each other, without divisions. If you search for truth in scripture, without taking anyone's statement as fact, but find it yourself, you will draw close to our creator... Acts 17:11 "Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."
John, I thought I recognized your tune from a while back. You are the wolf at the door. Stop Knocking! I know your deeds! If Not, show me the way with scripture. Prove it!
As stated in the forum rules, this discussion board is first and foremost dedicated to JWs whether they are active, inactive or even disfellowshipped (in case they still want to keep in touch with the JWs despite their current and potentially temporary status) and to those who are ready to respectfully discuss about alternative understandings and conclusions about the Bible without it all ending up in quarrels and name callings.... Exhortations to leave the JW brotherhood or said otherwise, even the org, as well as rabid and wanton scathing of the JW brotherhood or the WT are forbidden and may lead for some posts to be moderated and for their authors eventually to be banned. We all have free will, different walks of life, different feelings, different personal strengths and different ways to apprehend and manage the kind of worship we personally think we owe our dear heavenly Father Jehovah God.... That's a privilege this forum holds dear and is determined to preserve for all its members...
Dear Tsaphah, There are reasons why some people are allowed to stay here on this db despite their usually borderline speech. Some spiritual wolves are despite themselves notoriously famous for having stumps instead of a predatory smile... ☺
Utuna, as you know by my monicker implies, I am a watcher. I dislike deceptive individuals as mentioned by Jesus. I also view myself as a shepherd of the flock. It is important to me to let the sheep know when a predator in in or around the pen. I also detest liars who think they are brighter than their targets. I leave it up to the admistrators to decide whether to allow certain persons to remain. I will not get into any "debates about words". It would be a waste of my time. I rely on bibilical facts, not guesses.
I think it is time to read a few verses in God's word. Let us read, Lu:6:36,37 Ro:14:4 Jas:4:12. 1Co13:12 - Until we... Eph:4:13 and Php 2:3. Brothers and sisters "let us never forget those Bible texts. "AMEN" May Christ "LOVE" be with you all. Regent
Yes, I agree that we should show love for our brothers and sisster in the faith. We should also read what Christ Jesus warned us to watch for. “How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Mt 16:11-12 NASB ) This is to be followed by the writings of Paul. Here are a few different translations to look at. “do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.”(Php 2:4 NASB ) “as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.” (NWT) “Don’t look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too.” (NLT) Hmmm, looks very similar to the NWT. “Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.” (KJV) “not considering each of you your own things, but each of you also the things of others.” (Codex Sinaiticus) Paul warned Timothy of those who would disrupt the congregation, who introduce arguments about words. “Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions.” (1 Tim 6:4 NLT)
I am a liar? What I said I proved from the scriptures in the NWT itself, and what WT did in changing the translation WEscott and Hort gave. This from the WT Bible, Kingdom Interlinear. I showed above; Jesus says, "ask me anything in my name and I will do it." WT claims we CANNOT pray to Jesus, as it is wrong; Joshua said this too. That is not true. Look what Jesus said. Stephen when about to be stoned: "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." So, who has lied? WT changed the scriptures, not me.
Jesus teaches 'You must be born again." John 3:1-5 Here's the scriptural command. WT , 'You do not have to be born again.' Who is lying?
Sorry brother, you are wrong about this... Stephen wasn't praying, he was looking right at Jesus when he was speaking to him, because he could see him... It wasn't prayer... He was looking right into his eyes... Here brother, I'll brake it down a little more for you, and let's explore what Jesus is saying. The scripture in Jhn 14:13 means, whatever you ask the "Father". Let me show you by reference; Douay-Rheims Bible "Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son." Jubilee Bible 2000 "And whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." GOD'S WORD® Translation "I will do anything you ask [the Father] in my name so that the Father will be given glory because of the Son." We know this to be true because Jesus told us how to pray; New International Version "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name," The reason Jesus says in Jhn 14:14 whatever you ask "him" is because he's the master worker. English Standard Version "then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always," Jesus wouldn't say, "Whatever you ask the Father in my name, that will I do, you may ask me anything and I will do it." meaning that you can ask us both. The grammar makes absolutely no sense, and is not the meaning of the text. Jesus is not saying you can ask both of us, he is identifying his role as the master worker to the glory of his Father, of whom we are to pray, then by directing our prayers to the Father, it's asking him because he is the action. Jesus was saying whatever you ask the Father in my name, first off. Second, he was saying he would be the one doing it. So Jhn 14:13 says pray to the Father, but I'm the master worker, I'm the one who will give it to you, then in the very next verse he says whoever asks me, I will do it. He is not saying to pray to him, he already directed his disciples to pray to the Father, he said it in plain language. What he is actually saying is whatever you ask of the Father is asking him, and he will do it, this is the very reason he mentions his Father in the text. You can't have Jesus saying ask the Father, then ask him in the same sentence, he wasn't describing how to pray there, we have that in Mth 6:9. Jesus made it clear we are to pray to Jehovah, in his name, and to the glory of the Father he would act.