JohnS, Earthbound has pointed out, and now I attempt to do so as well. It is my impression that you harbor bad feelings toward the WT, and it becomes apparent in your words. If you can find a way past this, you will find more maturity in your service to gods kingdom. An opinion is simply that, we must all find our own ways to serve Gods kingdom, and we CAN NOT convince others that what we believe is the correct way to worship, especially when that involves condemnation, allegations, and spite. Telling Witnesses they are not worshiping correctly, and denying Christ is no way to get your point across. Simply my humble opinion...
JohnS, you do understand that this is your opinion right? You say the WT doesn't teach Christs words, and many hear disagree with you, including me. So I hope again this admonishment helps you find some perspective, what you are presenting here is your opinion, and one not shared by all, not of least by me...
Earthbound, You started off OK, then bam! more lecturing and judging, and you tell me not to judge. Joshua, you KNOW you have called WT evil and apostate for years, and others here too, worse, you all say God is going to destroy WT leadership. ...then 'clean it up'. Because of their evil and idolatrous ways. Now Rob comes on, and its all about 'loyalty to WT' What?! I encouraged Rob to just read his Bible first: book of John...stay away from religion: follow the master, Christ. I challenge anyone hear to object to this. (John 10)
Well he has an appointment to meet with WT ministers today, so maybe he'll tell us about it. Other than that, yes, we shouldn't judge individuals, but on the other hand, WT is open with their death sentencing of any religion other than their own: "Babylon the Great; evil, and demonic; and the apostates! They should be castrated! " This is the way they talk and jettison the apostates out of their ranks no matter if they have wives, kids, any relatives, jobs...no matter. Never even listening to our complaints or our understanding of scripture or objections to what they teach..."We are the prophets of Jehovah!" And you all want me to give them a blessing? Earthbound said, " As to your question "why keep attending their worship meetings," I believe the answer rests in a single question: why do you remain here years after coming to realize that nothing is going to change here (as far as your judgment is concerned)? Why continue to step down into this cesspool of false teachings and stubborn adherence to human views, as you've frequently alluded, when you know that it's a frustrating waste of time anyhow for you? Why persist in coming here to gather in this form of online worship and consideration of the Bible?" I'm sorry, but I don't agree with WT's doctrines, and the membership here don't either....but just the last couple days they act differently, and it's all "we're Jehovah's Witnesses, and loyal to the FDS"... That's what all this fuss is about.
Earthbound; Here's my last entry: http://e-jw.org/index.php?threads/let-him-that-has-ears-listen.2557/
Rob is new to scripture, you and I are not. We can discuss things that wont cause fight's and divisions. James 4:1 "What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?" With a new one it is my opinion to encourage them to study with someone who will encourage them, not cause fights and divisions. I hope you can pause for a moment and see the difference. We here are members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, look at the name at the top of the page, do you not think we encourage study with them? It is our opinion here that studying with JW's when new is a good thing. Now we here also understand deeper things of prophecy, and if others would like to look more into those subjects when they mature more from the basics of scripture, we will be here for that as well, but encouraging ones to immediately question JW's who want to assist this individual in learning basics could cause a new one to stumble, is that what you would want? You may disagree with me, but this is my opinion, and it appears to be the majority here. I have said it already, you can give a man a fish and feed him for the day, but teach a man to fish and you feed him for life. A study with JW's for a new one is highly recommended, and no I do not agree with you just reading the book of John is all a new one needs. 2Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
John S Judgemental and bullying behaviour won't be tolerated on this forum. I will not tolerate anyone who decides to use the forum as a "punching bag" and who decides to take their anger out on the brothers and sisters here. Let me know if I'm being unclear.
Wallflower; Very clear. I will go and let this site worship in peace the way they all wish, with no interference.
Good Day Rob, I would like to pass on some advice that has helped me through the years. “Don’t take any person’s word to be correct or true! Check It Out!” Also, don’t accept opinions as truthful. Always check it out! I was told, “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!” There are many sources on the internet, to help you in understanding the truth of Jehovah God’s word. It will be up to you to make the decisions that will effect your future. As I have said before; Of all the different religious churches/organizations on the face of the earth, Jehovah’s Witnesses are the closest to the early congregations mentioned in the Bible. None are perfect. You will find, all of them make mistakes because of human/fleshly desires. Even the nation of Israel, being directed by Jehovah, failed to follow his instructions faithfully. Of all those living at the time of Jesus, he had a hard time finding twelve. And, one of them betrayed Him! The nation of Israel didn’t believe Him, and killed Him! We will all stand before Jehovah and His Son to be judged personally. Just as Adam and Eve were judged for their sin of disobedience. Yes, they played the blame game, but it didn’t work. Adam, in a sense blamed God. “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” Then, Eve blamed the Serpent, “‘The serpent deceived me, and I ate.’” Excuses didn’t work. They died for their sin! The Hebrew word said by Eve was nasha’ (naw-shaw’) having an interesting connection as: to lend on interest or usury, be a creditor; (Qal) creditor (participle); (Hiphil) to act as a creditor. The word comes from a primitive root word, spelled and sounding the same, but in context means; to beguile, deceive. Isn't that what money lenders do? So, the debt was owed to Jehovah, because He owned that tree and it’s fruit. The debt was their lives. Adam paid a high price for listening to his wife instead of going to Jehovah for instruction. Here’s a scenario that I used yesterday while witnessing to a person who was not familiar with the Bible. Me: Here is a good example of deceit, or deception. Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God. They were placed in a garden with all the food they would need. God said, “You can eat from all of the trees except these two trees. One was the knowledge of good and bad. Person: Why didn’t he want them to know good and bad? Me: They were like babies. He was their parent and He knew what was good for them. He also knew what would be bad for them. He also had the right to instruct them. Me: The other tree was for life, to live as long as they listened to God for direction. He provided their life force. So, the two trees were representative of God’s right to provide what was right for them. We don’t know this to be true, but it is likely that the fruit didn’t hold those powers in them They were representative of those two things. They had everything they needed to live in a perfect setting. Person: So why did they take the fruit? Me: An individual, named Satan, chose the youngest one to deceive them. Why? Because He decided to ruin it all. That’s another part to be learned later. Stan used a snake, like a ventriloquist, to speak to Eve. There are things that most people either forget, or fail to read the account correctly. It sort of hidden within the account. Let’s look it up. For right now, I’ll use a modern English translation of the account. This is in the first book in the Bible titled Genesis. This is Genesis 3, verse 1; “Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, ‘Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” Me: Now listen to what Eve said: “The woman said to the serpent, ‘From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” Me: Did you notice how Eve correctly stated what God actually said? Let’s look at the original scripture where God spoke to Adam. Notice this also, God did not speak to Eve. At this time, Eve did not exist. Adam is the one who told Eve what God said. Here is the account in Genesis 2, verses 15 through 17. “Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.’” Person: Oh! He did say he could eat from all the other trees! But, not that one. Me: Let’s go back to chapter 3, where Satan had asked Eve about the trees used for food. Listen to what Satan says: “And he said to the woman, ‘Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” No! Eve answered correctly. But, here’s where most people miss what happens. Me: Here comes the lie, or deception. “The serpent said to the woman, ‘You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’” Now, pay attention to how Eve reacts. “When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate;” It was “desirable”. What does that really mean? To wish, to long for, which usually takes some time. Eve didn’t take the fruit instantly. It was likely at a later time. She thought about it, then acted on her “desire”. Then, she didn’t die! What? God lied to her and Adam. As the account goes on to say: “she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.” Why? Me: Here’s a possible setting: Eve:“Honey? Try some of this fruit! It’s delicious!” Adam: “Where did you get this?” Eve: “Don’t worry, it won’t kill you!” Adam: “It’s from the tree that God said not to eat! He said to not touch it!” Eve: “Yes! And I’m not dead! Ha Ha Ha. God lied to us. He didn’t want us to be equal to Him!” Adam: “Well, I’m not eating it!” Eve: “So, . . .Who you going to sleep with tonight? Adam: “Ahh, sweetheart! Come on, don’t... Eve: “Well? Adam: (gives in) “OK, I’ll try it. (munch, munch, (Ooooh this is good!), munch, munch, munch... Me: They’re evicted, they lose their home, and they eventually die. But it’s not the end of the story. We will continue next week.