For those who would like to attend the memorial,Sister Doxcey will be holding one via skype. It will include a few invited anointed having something to say. So it wont be just her talking,but a few others as well. Skype doesnt have to mean others can see you. You can just join the call just so you can hear the meeting.... Audio only.

Skype is very easy to set up. If you need help to set up your computer,I will talk you through it.

Last year it was great to hear an anointed holding the meeting since its for them. 2 invited anointed participated last year ..and this year there will be at least 3 anointed that i know of who will be involved. Last year we had some songs as well.

Please contact me via a PM and I will give you the details about how to contact Doxcey so you can attend.

It will start:
Romania: 4 am
East Coast USA: 10 pm
West Coast USA: 6 pm
Brazil: 11 pm

 

I am curious to know how more than one person can see or hear on skype? I have an account and I have always been under the impression that you and only the person you are connected to, are the only ones that can see or hear each other at any one time.

 

You can have a conferance call which can include as many as you like.

 

That's very cool , at this time I'm not up to adding anything
to my already complex electronics ...this bird is attending
the regular one with all the local halls and yes will partake
again which isn't counted and you all know why ...and with
whom it only counts anyway is the important reason ..I'm
tired of being cowardly ...I did last year also ..actually I
have always partaken except my away years ...would be
really nice if someone could record the one with Doxey
and friends because I would enjoy hearing an alternate
voice which would contain more affection I think..

and why isn't Doxey on this board ???

 

There will be SEVEN invited anointed who will be having parts in this service ! When was the last time anointed conducted the memorial and not elders. I cant wait. The memorial held by those first to recieve the benefits of the ransom. It will be the most unique memorial for 100's of years...perhaps since Jesus disciples died. Im excited !

Not too late to be included...and skype is dead easy to install. Even i can do it.

 

actually last years here was done by someone from Bethel.
I'm pretty sure they sent him as they probably figured I
would turn up and partake ...I've already wrapped my brain
around attending here altho I've been looking for a much
friendlier place as I know how this is considered but who
to obey is pretty set in my life ...I'd love to do skype just
to get out of facing the crowded room and because
some seem to elevate ones who partake , which is
not a desired thing in my mind ...rather would remain
anonymous , but seems even after 27years the brothers
in the hall in Seattle still knew who I was , and I only
attended there for a year , and it was pretty sparse
attendance as I was undergoing the divorce and technical
school ..and had switched halls due to the slander ..anyhow
next year maybe if I'm still here ...it sounds very inviting
and tomorrow night not so much .... Mic

 

Hi JD:

What is the passover that is celebrated by sister Doxcey and the 6 other "anointed ones" who will be present like? Is it a real passover celebration with a passover meal of lamb and bitter greens along with the 4 appropriate loaves of unleavened bread(3 full loaves with one of the full loaves split in half, totaling 4 loaves) and 4 cups of wine which together represent the different covenants and different covenant groups that are representative of all of mankind who have made themselves a part of 1 or more of these salvation covenants? Or is it modeled after the JW memorial funeral service where only 1 loaf and 1 cup representing the New Covenant only is and has been celebrated ever since Christ instituted this custom, with no meal and no loaf and cup for others who are not themselves in the "New Covenant"? Because if you are not a member of the new covenant you are not excluded from passove as there are the 3 other covenants, represented by one of the other 3 loaves and 3 cups customarily served at the passover, therefore all can partake based on what salvation covenant they are part of. Is the only difference in it that anointed are officiating, but everything else is pretty much the same as the WT? Only the first new covenant saints are represented and celebrated and everyone else, whether they are in a salvation covenant or not just sit's there and watches and listens? If it is a real passover celebration or memorial, I might like to be a part of that, but if it is just a rehashed version of the old and stale and incorrect memorial of the WT, I am not interested. So, which is it? A real passover, or a poor excuse for one?

You see a real passover celebration has all the aspects of the passover that Jesus celebrated with his disciples who were at so and so's house in 33 CE. Perhaps all of them at that time were in the "new covenant", but that would not preclude them from eating the other 3 loaves and drinking the other 3 cups because if you are in the new covenant, you are also in the other 3 as well. But, if there was someone present who had faith "outside of circumcision" or one who had faith "inside of circumcision" but was not "born again" or "anointed", these ones would also have a way to be an active part of the passover and not just bumps on a log, so to speak.

The Jews have celebrated the passover for over 3 millenia for the most part correctly, but for the wrong reasons and the Christians have celebrated for about 2 millenia, but improperly. There are 4 salvation covenants represented at the passover which are symbolized by the 4 loaves of bread and 4 cups of wine. If done properly, anyone who attends that is a part of one or more of these salvation covenants can partake of that particular loaf and cup, symbolizing their being a part of that salvation covenant.

The four salvation covenants are for 1. those who are part of the first Abrahamic Covenant which represents all those with faith in God that are outside of circumcision, like their covenant father Abraham was when he was recognized by God as a man with faith. 2. those who are a part of those with faith who are "in circumcision", or who have faith in God and they have joined a faith that is recognized by God as a true faith, as Judaism was in Abraham and Isaac and Jacobs time and was symbolized by "circumcision" and would today be symbolized by a baptism or "circumcision" into a faith recognized by Jehovah God as a true faith or religion. 3. those that are "born again" or "anointed" and faithful who have found and joined a true faith by baptism or "circumcision", but who know they are not a part of Jesus bride or wife (there are many who are in salvation covenants that make them "born again" or "anointed" but not part of what you call the "new covenant" 4. Lastly, but of course not least, those that are not only faithful, who have been and are currently part of a true faith recognized by God as such and "are" part of what you call the "new covenant" and are part of Jesus bride, his wife. The two "born again" or "anointed" covenants are represented by the loaf that is cut in two. These represent those that are part of the "new covenant" half that will rule in the heavenly Kingdom of God and those that will rule in the half of the Kingdom of God on earth, who will follow the lead of the heavenly "born again" ones as they are the bride of Christ, the Holy Spirit of the Kingdom. You see, the two mountains in Jerusalem were mount Zion and Mount Moriah which together were known as the city of two fold peace, one heavenly (Zion) and one earthly (Moriah).

So you see, the only ones that should not partake of a loaf and a cup are those that do not have faith in God at all. Group 4 will and can partake of all four loaves and cups as they are or were a part of each of the 4 salvation covenants, and to be a part of the 4th you have to be or have been at one time a part of the other 3. Group 3 can partake of all but the new covenant, which they are not a part of. Group 2 can partake of both 1 & 2 for the same reasons and Group 1 can only partake of the salvation covenant loaf and cup as that is the only one that they are part of, faith outside of circumcision. Those not able to partake will be encouraged to develop their faith in God so they will not be left out at the next passover, if there is one, that is! Make any sense? or is the old way better?

frank

 

Amen,Josh.

 

Hi Josh:

You and anyone else reading this should do yourself a favor and learn about the passover customs of the Jews prior to Jesus' tiime and during his ministry on earth, if you have not already done so. It will be very enlightening for you, I think. Since the passover is a historically Jewish annual observance, the symbolism's and how the festival translates into a Christian festival are very important, as that is what Jesus did at this first Christian Passover, he translated these very customs and symbolism's into a Christian observance for all our benefit and education, not just for those in the "new covenant" with him, but everyone who comes can participate in one way or another, as all from young to old participated in the Jewish Passover.

By understanding that there are 4 loaves (3 whole with 1 of the 3 loaves split into two parts, with one half hidden), with each loaf defining the "body" of those that would partake of that loaf and drink the corresponding cup (which represents the blood of the mediator of that covenant, as Jesus blood was represented by the wine of the cup of the "new covenant") That "blood", represented by the wine in the cup is now passed from one to another until all who are a part of that "body", as defined by those that partook of the bread of that particular loaf, is like our blood that circulates through our literal bodies, but in this case symbolically, around the body of the group defined by the eating of the loaf. Do you get that symbolism? I can tell from your posts that you are active in your research and study of God's Word and you have spent much time researching the points in that Word that interest you. I am just trying to encourage you and anyone else reading this to do what you already love doing, researching and discovering new things about the Word of God.

Let's just discuss a very simple point. Jesus and his disciples were eating a meal, would you agree? Jesus did not just assemble his twelve apostles, so and so, and any others that were there but UN-named that were assisting in the presentation of the passover, perhaps Martha and Mary, the sisters to Lazarus, who some postulate was so and so.

As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf [1AC] and, after saying a blessing, he broke it and, giving it to the disciples, he said: Take, eat. This is my body. Matt. 26:26

Do you emulate this at your passover? Do you eat the normal passover meal like your master Jesus did with his guests? It's a simple question. I have not hidden who I am, nor who I associate with on a spiritual level, so yes, there are a group, albeit small that celebrates the passover just as Jesus and his disciples did in 33CE. I will be doing this will a small group this year in Virginia, in the United States. In due time many more will celebrate in this way, perhaps even you and JD and maybe even Doxcey and her small group as well.

So, this loaf and cup was blessed and consumed "during" the meal as they "continued eating". When you do your research on the passover you will find out that two loaves and cups were and are consumed before the meal, 1 like this account in Matt is consumed "during the meal" and the "new covenant" loaf and cup are consumed "after the meal". So if this loaf and cup was not the "new covenant" loaf and cup, which covenant did it represent? Look at the wording of the account and see if you can tell. I can.

Also, he took a cup [1AC] and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: Drink out of it, all of you;
28 for this is my 'blood of the covenant,' which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. Matt. 26:27,28

So, after defining the "body" of this covenant by the bread which Jesus said, "take, eat, this is my body", he said a blessing over the wine, which represented the blood of that covenant, without which the covenant would have no force. But who did this loaf and cup apply to? Was it the little flock of his bride, his wife, or was it some other covenant group? Remember, all those who Jesus ate with that night were new covenant saints, so they would partake of all the loaves and cups as they are a part of all the covenants. So we have to look at the wording of the account to see who this covenant applies to.

26 As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf (not the loaf, but one of four in total) [of the 1AC] and, after saying a blessing, he broke it and, giving it to the disciples, he said: Take, eat. This is my body.
27 Also, he took a cup [of the 1AC] and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: Drink out of it, all of you;
28 for this is my 'blood of the covenant,' which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins (Matthew 26).


Does that sound like the covenant that was meant for the salvation of the "little flock"? I don't think that God's Word would use the word "many" when it was referring to the "little flock". If I am correct in my assumption, who eat's of this loaf and drinks of this cup? The simple answer would be "the many".

Paul aptly describes who the "many" are in Romans 5 where he says these words...

6 For, indeed, Christ, while we were yet weak, died for ungodly men at the appointed time.7 For hardly will anyone die for a righteous [man]; indeed, for the good [man], perhaps, someone even dares to die.8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more, therefore, since we have been declared righteous now by his blood (of the covenant defined by the bread and wine at the passover), shall we be saved through him from wrath.10 For if, when we were enemies, we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, now that we have become reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.11 And not only that, but we are also exulting in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.13 For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law.14 Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam, who bears a resemblance to him that was to come.

15 But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many.16 Also, it is not with the free gift as it was with the way things worked through the one [man] that sinned. For the judgment resulted from one trespass in condemnation, but the gift resulted from many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness.17 For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.

Now the cup and the loaf that Jesus blesses and passes to his disciples that applied to all those in the "new covenant", the "little flock" is purposely worded a little different. Let's see if you can discern the difference. Oh, by the way, this was done after the meal was completed.

19 Also, he took a loaf(not the loaf) [of the "new covenant"], gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: This is my body, which is to be given in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.
20 Also, the cup [of the "new covenant"] in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: This cup is the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf (Luke 22). "In your behalf" does not apply to "the many" but only to those in the "little flock". By the way, this is the loaf and cup that Judas did not partake of as he was already possessed by Satan and on his merry way to betray Jesus to the religious leaders.

3But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is‧car′i‧ot, who was numbered among the twelve;4and he (Satan in Judas) went off and talked with the chief priests and [temple] captains about the effective way to betray him to them. Luke 22


21 After saying these things, Jesus became troubled in spirit, and he bore witness and said: “Most truly I say to ​YOU, One of ​YOU​ will betray me.â€22 The disciples began to look at one another, being at a loss as to which one he was saying [it] about.23 There was reclining in front of Jesus’ bosom one of his disciples, and Jesus loved him.24 Therefore Simon Peter nodded to this one and said to him: “Tell who it is about whom he is saying [it].â€25 So the latter leaned back upon the breast of Jesus and said to him: “Lord, who is it?â€26 Therefore Jesus answered: “It is that one to whom I shall give the morsel that I dip.†And so, having dipped the morsel, he took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Is‧car′i‧ot.27 And after the morsel then Satan entered into the latter. Jesus, therefore, said to him (To Satan in Judas, not Judas): “What you are doing get done more quickly.â€28 However, none of those reclining at the table knew for what purpose he said this to him.29 Some, in fact, were imagining, since Judas was holding the money box, that Jesus was telling him: “Buy what things we need for the festival,†or that he should give something to the poor.30 Therefore, after he received the morsel, he went out immediately. And it was night. John 13

They were still reclining at the table and eating, so it was after Judas left the meal that Jesus instituted the loaf and cup of the "new covenant". So, any Judas' should not eat the loaf and drink the cup "after the meal". Only kidding, just a little levity.


You see, this loaf and cup was for a different group than the one in Matt. which was consumed "before the meal" and this one "after they had the evening meal". Also, the first loaf and cup was "for the many" and this one was "in your behalf", meaning the bride of Christ, those who are covenanted with him in marriage. This was Jesus proposal to them and they accepted by eating and drinking the emblems of this symbolic sacrifice. Does that make sense? Or is it just some mumbo, jumbo voodoo by some crazy idiot? Will your memorial be conducted like this example set by Christ, or will you follow the example of the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" of the GB of the Watchtower. It's your choice!

You know as well as I do that when I use the terms circumcision or UN-circumcision I am mostly speaking of it in symbolic terms, with the exception of those actually circumcised to be included in the literal nation of Israel. Abraham had a covenant with God while he was uncircumcised, and he was considered a "righteous man" while in UN-circumcision. He later followed God's command to be circumcised as an outward expression of his faith that he displayed while in UN-circumcision, much like we are baptized as an outward symbol of our inward expression of faith and the circumcision of the heart. Fair enough? There are those that because of their stage of spiritual development like the stage that Abraham was in while in UN-circumcision (try typing that word 3 times fast) that will have strong faith in God like Abraham, but will not be "circumcised" symbolically by baptism into "circumcision" yet, but will still be covered by this covenant. That is the covenant for the "many", some of which will be symbolically circumcised and some not. Does that make sense?

This will have to do for now. I know I have not answered all your questions, but the rest will have to be for another time in order to not confuse the situation. I hope that I presented this in an understandable way. Till later, your brother in Christ,

frank

 

"For I received from the Lord that which I also handed on to YOU, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was going to be handed over took a loaf and, after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body which is in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.â€￾ He did likewise respecting the cup also, after he had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.â€￾ For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives." - 1Cor11:23

That's the only part to be observed in remembrance of him, the meal as a whole not being part of what Jesus asked his anointed brothers to commemorate.

If you wish so, on personal grounds, you may observe the whole meal but shouldn't criticize others for not doing the same as that's going beyond what is written.

 

Just because they were having a meal and THEN Jesus begins the new ceremony,doesnt mean we have to have the meal. Dont we converse and talk about new ideas during a meal ? Since when does bread and wine alone make a meal ? Why didnt he make an aplicatioin for the "bitter greens" and other foods which are part of the pasover meal ? What did the meat symbolise ? So it shows the 2 things needed....because Jesus was going to fulfill the law,including the pasover meal...and the 2 things that symbolised His Son would remain.

It was during the meal that Jesus made the application of the bread and wine...because these were the parts Jehovah had incorporated into the passover so His Son could use the bread and wine with those of the NEW covenant.

No other foods were used to signify the sacrifice of Jesus...so only those were needed.

 

J.D was the memorial available on skype in the UK? was it recorded and is it available to download? I went to the memorial this evening it was very nice. But it would be nice to hear what the anointed themselves had to say.

Shikinah

 

Just got back from the memorial and was wondering if anyone knew if there is a new outline being used? Did any hear the use of verse 26 used?

Also was there the mention of Carnegie, Ford, Rockefeller?

 

yes as to 1Cor 11:23-26 read separately with each passing..
and NO to any mention of any worldly persons ...we also again
had a person from Bethel ..but sorry forgot whom it was ...was
nearly exactly the same talk as last year ...

 

The speaker spoke of the anointed as having the heavenly hope, didn't mention the phrase "other sheep" but instead refered to them as "ones having the earthly hope."

1 Cor 11:26 was used on both occasions for passing of bread and wine. The brother added that when Jesus arrives, He will collect the anointed to Him and the anointed will not need to celebrate the Memorial anymore.

(At this point, my mind "backed up" and I started to "mentally debate" in my head, with the brother as he continued speaking. "But what about 1914 - when Jesus "supposedly arrived" then?") Then the brain settled down again.

Wallflower

 

Hi WF,

YES, the thought about the speaker stating that the memorial will continue until Jesus arrives and gathers his chosen ones (the Matt 24:30,31 arrival) does cause one to say what about the “supposal arrival†in 1914. This is why I thought it was odd that they mentioned verse 26, cause in all the years I have been attending the memorial…they always read:

then say a prayer to introduce passing the bread…


then they read:

then say a prayer to introduce passing the wine…but they never go as far as to read verse 26, and I always say to myself at that time…if according to the belief that he arrived in 1914 but verse 26 says to keep doing it until he arrives…then why do JW’s keep having the memorial, so of course they won’t read that verse…

but now it seems that they acknowledge that the arrival in verse 26 is his future coming at Matt 24:30…just as they have now acknowledged that the masters arrival at Matt 24:46 is the arrival at Matt 24:30.

 

YES , that missed my attention but "other sheep" was not used in our discussion either , perhaps
there were more bethel boys out to be sure the script was followed. Thank you for catching that
I haven't been analyzing the talks lately as I haven't been to the hall , and quite frankly lately
the watchtower studies have crammed the word "organization" in so many ways , one study had
about 33 times in 18 paragraphs ..and also in some other terms ...I can only remember that word
being used once last night ..I would happily return to the meetings if the bro's didn't decide I need
to be used as a whippin' post for practicing hatred ....but it was good to see so many gathered in
one spot..