I recently did some research about the Zoroastrian religion, to learn where it began and how it differs from other religions. My first source for information was the Encyclopedia Britannica. This is one of the highest acclaimed sources in the world. Well, guess what? In the (second) following paragraph, there was a spelling error. (the religon contains) Oops, so much for reliability. It immediately raises questions for me. Then, in the second sentence, there is the statement of how Zoroaster’s teachings influenced other religions such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Unfortunately, there is no reference material listed to back up that statement. An untrained person, or student writing a research paper, will quote this as being a true statement. “Founded by the Iranian prophet and reformer Zoroaster in the 6th century BC, the religion contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. It influenced the other major Western religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.†(Encyclopedia Britannica-Zoroaster) http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/658060/Zoroaster Zoroaster is claimed to have been born c. 628 BC, probably Rhages, Iran—died c. 551 BC. Of course the country of Iran didn’t exist in that time frame. If we use these figures, he was about 77 years old when he died, in an unknown location. He would have been about 21 years of age in 607 BC; the year, claimed to be the year, that the nation of Israel was released from Babylon. And, an interesting thought: Could he have been one of the “wise men†who advised Nebuchadnezzar, or Darius, or Cyrus? Hmmm. Let’s get back to that statement of “influenced the other major Western religionsâ€, especially Judaism. It is my understanding that Judaism was the oldest religion on earth at that time. So, what customs or beliefs were introduced by Zoroaster that changed or influenced the customs of Judaism? Again, among scholars, that is debatable. They will note that the nation of Israel and it’s associated religious practices were not established until they left Egypt around 1600 - 1500 BC. They can claim that there were already other religions, especially those of Egypt, prior to the time of their enslavement in Egypt, and the practices of the Israelites were influenced by the Egyptians, and other nations. Remember, there was the religion of Babylon which led to the building of the tower. Those beliefs spread around the earth during the dispersion, after the flood. This is the beginning of myths. What are myths? Myths are stories based upon events with many embellishments, whether real or not. Sort of like Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. Some people are familiar with the story of St. George and the Dragon. Where did it come from? The answer: Revelation 12:7-12. These types of myths are found in almost all religions among mankind. One that seems to give reason to the thought that the Israelites borrowed some of their religion from Zoroaster is the story of Ahura Mazdā, “supreme god and creator of the universe and the cosmic order. He created the twin spirits Spenta Mainyu and Angra Mainyu - the former beneficent, choosing truth, light, and life, the latter destructive, choosing deceit, darkness, and death.†Hmmm, Jesus, and Satan. My how the devil loves to mimic. No new ideas of his own, it's the "same old story". This is nothing new; as all tribes, nations, and tongues have similar myths. The Norse have Beowulf and Grendel, the Irish have Cú Chulainn. “Cú Chulainn, born as Sétante, the son of the god Lug (Lugh) of the Long Arm and Dechtire, the sister of Conor, was of great size and masculine beauty and won distinction for his exploits while still a child.†(Encyclopedia Britannica) “Cú Chulainn shows striking similarities to the Persian epic hero Rostam, as well as to the Germanic Lay of Hildebrand and the labours of the Greek epic hero Hercules, suggesting a common Indo-European origin, but lacking in linguistic, anthropological and archaeological material.†M. Connell: The Medieval Hero: Christian and Muslim Traditions. Ed. Dr. Müller. 2008. p. 227 (A. Häusler, Indogermanische Altertumskunde, pp.406-407, In: H. Beck, D. Geuenich, H. Steuer, Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde, vol. 15, 2000, pp.402-408) Where does this lead us? It’s all about faith. A line from a song, “Angel of Deathâ€, says, “A holocaust the likes of which This planet had never seen Now, I ask you Do you believe this to be true?†[video=youtube;jiRH_DKDuz8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiRH_DKDuz8[/video] The Black Rose (Live) 1983 Oh, Tell me the legends of long ago When the kings and queens would dance in the realm of the Black Rose Play me the melodies I long to know So I might teach my children, oh Pray, tell me the story of young Cú Chulainn How his eyes were dark his expression sullen How he'd fight and always won And how they cried when he has fallen Tell me the story of the Queen of this land And how her sons died at her own hand How the fools obey commands Oh tell me the legends of long ago (Long Instrumental bridge - Scott Gorham, Brian Robertson & Gary Moore) Oh, Tell me the legends of long ago When the kings and queens would dance in the realm of the Black Rose Play me the melodies I long to know So I might teach my children, ohhhhh
I've seen a lot of different religion and beliefs. but they all have one thing in common they are all dependant on man to give then any power or life. without man they have nothing at all! this is how I know Jehovah is the one true god; he doesn't need statues storys or the help of man to do anything. that makes him god in my book. he is fully all powerful fully sufficient to rule the universe and he doesn't make those mistakes that the pseudo god's make..
High jehovahisgod, Right on bro!! Being dependant on men to teach and guide you takes away from the richness of a close personal relationship with Jehovah the Almighty God thru Jesus the mighty god. Joe
What about the apostles? What about 'those taking the lead'? I understand where you are coming from, but this system was setup by Jesus himself! Church, leaders, servants, coordinated ministry, etc.; Without man, guided by spirit, Christianity and the Bible would be a footnote in history. Titus, 1,2 Timothy, 2 Corinthians explicitly define this system. What if the Jews had said "we don't need Moses to guide us"? What about the Bible itself? This is God's word written by men guided through spirit! (why would you accept the Bible but reject God using men? isn't that contradictory?) "Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you." 1 Thess 5:12 (NIV) God doesn't just use man to accomplish his will, WE ARE his MAIN instrument!!! Think about it - how many miracles did Jehovah perform to accomplish his will - now how many men did Jehovah use to accomplish his will? 1:1000 ? More? Jehovah is saving man through the preaching work of humans who worship him: "God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe" (oye, sorry for the thread jack - lots o people leaving the faith because of this faulty 'man' argument)
Rejecting men who teach and guide you leads to something that isn't the truth. Where would you be if someone hadn't explained the Bible to you so that you could put faith in it's truths? How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!†16 But they have not all obeyed the Gospel. For Isaiah saith, “Lord, who hath believed our report?†17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10:14-17 (NKJV) Yes, some teachers have stepped over their bounds. But now what? Do we tell people to just read the Bible by themselves? Would there even be a single Christian on this earth had Jesus just told people to read Genesis - Revelation?
He doesn't need humans but he wants to use them anyway. That's what the Truth, the Bible and his love for us as humans is all about. Why should we bother demonstrating love towards our neighbour if Jehovah can do things perfectly without us ? Why not just wait on Jehovah to right the wrongs and comfort those who suffer ? Isn't it what some pioneers do... => "I'm sorry. I can't help you because I'm behind my preaching time schedule this month....! May Jehovah help you !" Who did Jehovah tell to love their neighbour as themselves ? Didn't he mean it ? Why did he choose imperfect humans as prophets, kings and apostles ? Why did he choose for the congregations to be overseen by appointed imperfect elders ? Why is he choosing humans from among mankind to serve their fellow b/s and will he appoint them over all his belongings, through His son, to rule over mankind for 1 000 years ? Is Jehovah so obsessed by humans, being blind to their stupidity and imperfection ? Isn't there a reason for all of this ?
When I started writing my post, you hadn't posted yours yet. I wouldn't have said it any better, maybe a bit differently though. Chapeau bas !
Hi Singlecell, I was not suggesting that the arangement that Jesus and Jehovah has set up is not correct - in fact I embraced it and spent 40 yrs being a part of the watchtower organization. The problem that cropped up for me was that I finally realized that blind obedience to men amounts to idolatry. If one follows the advice of the Apostle John and test every inspired expression and is scripturally honest with himself you start to realize that their are teachings that are incorrect. What now? You try to readjust in a loving way using scripture to explain what you have learned. A person becomes noble minded and checks every teaching with scripture as to whether it is so. No matter how loving or respectful one is in trying to do this you will eventually be labeled apostate and disfellowshiped. This misuse of their power is another example of how far astray they have gotten. I have never lost faith in Jehovah and Jesus and the words of truth. I really do enjoy the freedom that Paul speaks of in Galatians 5. Which freedom is not allowed in the watchtower organization. I'm not suggesting that all have to take the course I did. I am suggesting that all listen to the scriptures and to not put your trust in men. For some reason it seems that all large religious organizations that have some kind of heirarchy wind up in this position. (Just a observation) May you have a peaceful day. Joe
I couldn't agree more. What a predicament we're all in, regardless of how we handle the issue!!! Boy do we stink Tsaphah Back on topic, it seems that people quick to judge see some of this Zoaroastrian / Mithras stuff and just throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Hi Joe, You took important decisions in the past because you thought back then that they were the decisions that you had to take and that they were what Jehovah wanted you to do. Jehovah knows why you took those decisions and there's no questioning them here at all. What I'm going to say now isn't destined to you but is a general statement. I'd rather have in mind one guy on Robert's website. What makes me cringe is when people blame the WT for being sectarian and knowledge-centered whereas they exactly do the same in return against the JWs by figuratively spitting at them because of the WT errors. Those people think that they're entitled to scathe the JWs for knowing henceforth what Truth is not whereas they are still at a loss regarding what Truth is.... Consequently, in Jehovah's eyes, they aren't so further along as the JWs... Whether you're wrong because someone misled you or because you misled yourself by believing spiritual fairy tales, the bottom line is : You're wrong too, we're all wrong ! => so at least try and pipe down ! Don't boast so loud ! That's beyond me when I see people who have suffered from the knowledge-centered frame of mind of the WT doing the exact same thing in return against others.... Is it what truth is all about ? Well, I have written reams here and there about it so I'm sure that you understand what I mean. "“With whom shall I compare this generation? It is like young children sitting in the marketplaces who cry out to their playmates, saying, ‘We played the flute for YOU, but YOU did not dance; we wailed, but YOU did not beat yourselves in grief.’ Correspondingly, John came neither eating nor drinking, yet people say, ‘He has a demon’; the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.â€" - Matt. 11:16-19 I call this a sandbox frame of mind. They're like children, always whining for personal things but being unable to discern what really matters...
this is all about who will turn to Jehovah and righteous not for fear of punishment or reward but who loves god and their fellowman enough to do something besides utter a correct bible verse! I pray for those that think that Jehovah is going to be happy with you because you preached door to door for millions of hours but.. you did not stop preaching long enough to render human kindness! was it not Jesus who said what good is it to say friend go in peace stay warm and fed.. but you gave them nothing so that they could.. OK wonderful repent of your sins and turn your life to Jesus and Jehovah..that's great advice and the bible says to preach and make disciples.. but did Jesus just preach a lot? no he healed the sick he fed people. he had Judas dispense money to those who desperately needed it. but the kingdom hall tells us that sacred service is cleaning and maintaining the hall. they tell us or duty is to tell people what is written in the publications for as many hours as we can muster.. but I'm 53 now once I was short on my electric bill so I asked an elder for help. yes I got the money but I also got a lecture on burdening my brothers and the congregation and how I should pay back the money quickly!! did not Jesus say when you loan some money do so without expecting repayment? now I have a new religion I read gods word for myself each day and ask Jehovah to provide enough for me and whoever he wants me to help. the result? as I wrote and prayed somebody called for gas money willing to give me food in trade. I said come get the money don't worry about payment. it was just a little money but I think Jehovah is happy. I did it.
In reading some of the replies, it brings to mind many thoughts about which religion is correct, true to God’s word, and doing the “right thing.†Fractured thoughts: The WTB&TS is like modern day Pharisees. We are the “True Christian†faith. Only WE preach the truth! We are the way, the truth, and the life. Don’t associate with people of the world, even your neighbors. “When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, ‘Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners ?’†( Mt. 9:11 NASB ) The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?†(For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)†(Joh 4:9 ESV) “Just then his disciples came back. They marveled that he was talking with a woman, but no one said, “What do you seek?†or, “Why are you talking with her?†(Joh 4:27 ESV) Are these not the same teachings of the Pharisees? At the same time, doing business with the world through investments in the stock market? I was asked by a pioneer sister, “Do you believe this is Jehovah’s earthly organization?†I had to honestly answer, “I don’t know!†I believe it is an earthly organization run by men who claim to represent Jehovah, and claim to be “anointed†with Jehovah’s spirit. “And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.†(Mt. 24:4-5 ESV) “Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, ‘I am the Messiah!’ and they will fool many people.†(Mt. 24:4-5 GNT) The Greek word used hear is christos = christ; from the root word chrio, meaning to anoint (Christ = "anointed"). The Hebrew word is mashach, which means to anoint, from which we get messiah.
Nowadays, we may have high-tech cellphones, computers, satellites and so on but fundamentally, mankind hasn't changed a bit since Jesus' times.... The same thought patterns live on in every man, regardless of their religion (and atheists too). "Jesus said to them: “Keep YOUR eyes open and watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." - Mat. 16:6 "Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye ?" - Mat. 7:3 That was honest and is correct on objective grounds, in my point of view : I had to honestly answer, “I don’t know!†I believe it is an earthly organization run by men who claim to represent Jehovah, and claim to be “anointed†with Jehovah’s spirit.
There is one thing that I must make clear here. Although I have issues with the WTB&TS (aka Jehovah's Witnesses) is; If there is an organization "anointed" to represent Jehovah God and His Son, Jesus, it would be the WTB&TS (aka Jehovah's Witnesses)! That is where I started to understand what the true message of the bible had. They were the only organization that answered my questions with truth about heaven and hell, God's plan for mankind and the earth. The answer to the Trinity smokescreen, etc. When someone asks me if I am a "Jehovah's Witness", I have to say "Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses! Although, I do have disagreements about issues of prophetic interpretation, and a few other things. It's sort of like the true teachings of Moses and the teachings of the Sadducees and Pharisees." By that time, I've thoroughly confused them and they have regretted that they asked me at all. I smile and say, "I do not follow the teachings of men!"
EXACTLY how I feel. I'm proud to be discredited with this group, and proud to reject components of the organization Basically, we need to despise shame to come to any semblance of the truth in this system; the world is a smokescreen, Christendom is smoke screen, and inside the WTBS there are smokescreens. People don't like when their smokescreen is removed, even a little bit!
Removing the smokescreen is like the story of the King’s new clothes. No one wants to accept the fact that they are naked. When you tell them that they are, they don’t want to accept it. If you are not familiar with this old tale, watch the following. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wng-eSUk9I0 So, sometimes it’s best to say nothing at all. [video=youtube;nGt9jAkWie4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt9jAkWie4[/video]
guys you forgot to mention the most abnormal bizarre religion out their! its called church of the sub genius! with bob doobs who looks like Mr cleaver on leave it to beaver. and smokes a pipe filled with drop a weird drug that never wears off. his belief is slack and doing weird thing just to do them. anybody that's abnormal can join so now you have heard it all.
Hey jehovahisgod, Not yet! There’s more to come. The Church for Every Misfit. Initials CEM, could represent Chemicals, or the beginning of CEMetery, where everyone is dying to get in.
The Chaldean Account of Genesis (Cuneiform Tablets from Neneveh) “Although it was known that Assyria borrowed its civilization and written characters from Babylonia, yet, as the Assyrian nation was mostly hostile to the southern and older kingdom, it could not be guessed beforehand that the peculiar national traditions of Babylonia would be transported to Assyria. Under these circumstances, for some years after the cuneiform inscriptions were first deciphered, nothing was looked for or discovered bearing upon the events of Genesis; but, as new texts were brought into notice, it became evident that the Assyrians copied their literature largely from Babylonian sources, and it appeared likely that search among the fragments of Assyrian inscriptions would yield traces at least of some of these ancient Babylonian legends. Attention was early drawn to these points by Sir Henry Rawlinson, who pointed out several coincidences between the geography of Babylonia and the account of Eden in Genesis, and suggested the great probability that the accounts in Genesis had a Babylonian origin.†- The Chaldean Account of Genesis by George Smith, London, 1876. _________________________________________ The above quotation is an example of the “academic†line of thinking. “Although it was knownâ€, they ignored, and continue to ignore “that the peculiar national traditions of Babylonia would be transported to Assyria.†When their mind is already made up on a certain thought or theory, nothing, even facts, can change it. "All facts are lies. Only myths are true." In this case, the bible was basically ignored. This is especially true for Genesis chapter 10, which gives names and the approximate area of where the people settled. The archeological experts used the bible to determine the time line of the tablets because the names are very similar to those provided in Genesis. When they compare the Genesis account with the Babylonian tablets, it is evident how unbelievable the Babylonian accounts are. For example, the creation account; (from the tablets) In the first year there appeared, from that part of the Erythraean sea which borders upon Babylonia, an animal endowed with reason, by name Oannes, whose whole body (according to the account of Apollodorus) was that of a fish; that under the fish's head he had another head, with feet also below similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish's tail. His voice, too, and language were articulate and human; and a representation of him is preserved even to this day. This being was accustomed to pass the day among men, but took no food at that season; and he gave them an insight into letters and sciences, and arts of every kind. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and showed them how to collect the fruits; in short, he instructed them in every thing which could tend to soften manners and humanize their lives. From that time, nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun had set this being Oannes retired again into the sea, and passed the night in the deep, for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes, of which Berosus proposes to give an account when he comes to the history of the kings. Moreover, Oannes wrote concerning the generation of mankind, and of their civil polity; and the following is the purport of what he said:— “There was a time in which there existed nothing but darkness and an abyss of waters, wherein resided most hideous beings, which were produced of a two-fold principle. There appeared men, some of whom were furnished with two wings, others with four, and with two faces. They had one body, but two heads; the one that of a man, the other of a woman; and likewise in their several organs both male and female. Other human figures were to be seen with the legs and horns of a goat; some had horses' feet, while others united the hind quarters of a horse with the body of a man, resembling in shape the hippo-centaurs. Bulls likewise were bred there with the heads of men; and dogs with fourfold bodies, terminated in their extremities with the tails of fishes; horses also with the heads of dogs; men, too, and other animals, with the heads and bodies of horses, and the tails of fishes. In short, there were creatures in which were combined the limbs of every species of animals. In addition to these, fishes, reptiles, serpents, with other monstrous animals, which assumed each other's shape and countenance. Of all which were preserved delineations in the temple of Belus at Babylon. “The person who presided over them was a woman named Omoroca, which in the Chaldean language is Thalatth, in Greek Thalassa, the sea; but which might equally be interpreted the moon. All things being in this situation, Belus came, and cut the woman asunder, and of one half of her he formed the earth, and of the other half the heavens, and at the same time destroyed the animals within her (or in the abyss). “All this†(he says) “was an allegorical description of nature. For, the whole universe consisting of moisture, and animals being continually generated therein, the deity above-mentioned took off his own head; upon which the other gods mixed the blood, as it gushed out, and from thence formed men. On this account it is that they are rational, and partake of divine knowledge. This Belus, by whom they signify Jupiter, divided the darkness, and separated the heavens from the earth, and reduced the universe to order. But the animals, not being able to bear the prevalence of light, died. Belus upon this, seeing a vast space unoccupied, though by nature fruitful, commanded one of the gods to take off his head, and to mix the blood with the earth, and from thence to form other men and animals, which should be capable of bearing the air. Belus formed also the stars, and the sun, and the moon, and the five planets.†(Such, according to Polyhistor Alexander, is the account which Berosus gives in his first book.) ____________________________________________________ Which account is more believable to you?
you have to remember that Daniel was their and one of the apocra books is another book of Daniel in that book it tells how he used a kind of chewing gum to cause a dragon to choke and while it was chokeing Daniel slayed it their are also descriptions. of the strange creatures born of the wicked angels and one in fact was a story teller who told strange tales of the gods... its quite possible that once this angel could walk about on earth and I'm sure from the fishy god story he is the angel that they worshiped as dagon.. what is of great interest to me is although many tales have been told about strange creatures back then. we have never found any bones to support the legends yet Evan the Bible speaks of the dragons and one horned horse! I just guess we will have to wait to the resurrection to ask the old prophets how the strange religions were born. but while we are on weird beliefs have you ever heard of the Chinese belief about the monkey god who was worshipped because it levitated?