Privacy - Is it Important to YOU?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Aug 3, 2014.

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    Utuna

    Utuna Administrator

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    Hey Tsaphah,

    Do you know Cambridge Analytica ?

    Please, have a closer look at the political division... :eek: Was this election rigged and by whom...?

    The main problem with lies is that there are always people who end up believing them.

    Maybe that you already know it, otherwise, I bet that you're gonna love what follows.... You already know that conspiracy theories and paranoid fears aren't my cup of tea but when the articles are sensible, well-documented and objectively written, they may be of interest to me* :

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mg9vvn/how-our-likes-helped-trump-win

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...es-cambridge-analytica-what-role-brexit-trump

    https://www.theguardian.com/technol...eat-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/07/cambridge_analytica_dystopianism/

    Another one from Snopes :

    http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/14/da...sues-the-guardian-brexit-cambridge-analytica/

    This one is for Baruk and for other French-speaking readers :

    https://www.spicee.com/fr/program/unfair-game-comment-trump-a-manipule-lamerique-1184

    Hi Baruk, I have bought and downloaded the full version of the program above. I'm uploading it on my Youtube account in private mode so I can share it to trusted people in case of need.... Ring the bell if you're interested... ;)

    * And not only when they bash "casque d'or"/ "golden helmet" as I like to call Trump... :p
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Well, well, well! I’ve been familiar with all of these “Fake News”:eek: sites, for many years. The saying is: “What you don’t know can’t hurt you!” Yeah, it won’t hurt you, it can kill you! Their average Joe/Jane is clueless when it comes to intelligence gathering. They are also clueless to the “farming” of individual accounts on the internet, and the development of A.I. All these “handy devices” that help you around the house, shopping, appointments, etc, etc, etc.

    As for the Golden Helmet, I’m more inclined to describe his mouth, Cat’s Butt, when he’s talking.:D How many people do you think understand Luke 4:5-6: “So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. Then the Devil said to him: ‘I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.’”

    And all the Presidents and Rulers said, “Thank You. Thank You, Very Much!!”:D

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There have been several news articles in National and International news papers and Magazines recently. At the same time there are “new” technology “bots” offered for sale by several different companies. The following few paragraphs are quotes from a book that I highly recommend. I am using the fair use clause from the copyright law, as a commentary about the use of “bots” from the following.
    _______________________________________
    “I’VE DOWNLOADED a smartphone app called Cleverbot, which I’m trying out. It is attempting to convince me that it is human. So I’ve decided to ask it a few questions to test it out. I’ve texted a friend of my son’s, too, to get a comparison, so here are the responses. Can you tell which is the human and which the chatbot?

    Question 1: Do you have a girlfriend?
    Response A: Do you want me to have a girlfriend?
    Response B: Mind your own business.

    Question 2: What is your dream?
    Response A: My dream is to become a famous poet.
    Response B: To make lots of money.

    Question 3: Are you conscious?
    Response A: If I wasn’t I don’t think I . . .
    Response B: It’s the only thing I’m sure of.

    It turns out that the more I play with Cleverbot the more I am training the app to respond like a human. Every conversation I have with the app is banked and tapped into for future conversations, so
    that my responses will become part of the next conversation that Cleverbot might have.

    Although the responses to my questions so far are inconclusive it’s not long before a conversation with Cleverbot reveals it to be rather less than human. But the question of whether my smartphone will ever be clever enough to be conscious of its own existence, or whether I can really tell if my son’s friend is truly conscious or is also just a good simulation, is far trickier and goes to the heart of one of the toughest unknowables on the books.
    Both responses to my question about consciousness tap into Descartes’s famous declaration: “I think, therefore I am.” This was his response to the skeptics who doubted whether we could be sure that we truly knew anything about the universe. Originating in Plato’s Academy in Athens, the skeptics believed nothing could be known for certain. You think you are currently holding a book or perhaps some electronic device in your hand. But are you sure? I’ve picked up the die on my table. At least I think I have, but perhaps the whole thing is a dream and there is no book and no die. Perhaps the whole experience is some computer-simulated environment fed into our brains like some scene from The Matrix. Descartes in his Meditations retorts that in all these scenarios the one thing I can be sure about is my own existence, my own consciousness. However, this “I” could turn out to be one of the ultimate unknowables.” ( The Great Unknown by Marcus Du Sautoy, 2016, pp 301-302)
    _________________________________________

    Apple Inc., encourages customers to use the Siri bot, Amazon wants you to buy Alexa, there are many other “virtual agents/assistants”, to help you. They all remind me of Hall9000 from “2001 A Space Odyssey”. The questions and answers listed above are unique. As the author asks, “Can you tell which is the human and which the chatbot?”, did you chose correctly? It is based on what you know of human reactions and, how the questions are to be understood.

    What is the difference between these two statements: This is a true story. This is based on a true story. The one thing that is important to distinguish between a “[ro]bot” and a “human” is what?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot

    An Artificial Intelligence Developed Its Own Non-Human Language
    (Gen 11:1-9)
    https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...e-develops-its-own-non-human-language/530436/

    Answer: “[ro]bots” don’t have souls!
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “Artificial intelligence engineers have a problem: They often don’t know what their creations are thinking.”

    “Defining AI is slippery and growing more so, as startups slather the buzzword over whatever they are doing. It is generally accepted as any attempt to ape human intelligence and abilities.”

    “Because engineers typically create many versions of an AI when trying to discover the best one, the use of cognitive psychology could give engineers more power to choose the ones that “think” the way we want them to, Mr. Barrett said. Alternatively, we might find it’s better when AIs don’t think like us: We might learn something new about how to solve problems.
    The upshot is that when we replace human decision makers with artificial intelligences, AIs have the potential to be better, with more accountability, because their output is measurable and we might be able to trace how they make decisions.
    We ask humans to do this—in court, when dissecting a business decision—but humans are unreliable narrators. With machines, we could have decision-makers whose every bias and impulse can be inspected and potentially altered.”
    (Career of the Future: Robot Psychologist, By Christopher Mims (WSJ -July 9, 2017)

    “Elon Musk warned a gathering of U.S. governors that they need to be concerned about the potential dangers from the rise of artificial intelligence and called for the creation of a regulatory body to guide development of the powerful technology.”
    Tesla Boss Warns on Artificial Intelligence. By Tim Higgins, WSJ, July 17, 2017)

    Even though Mr. Musk warns about the dangers of AI, he “helped create OpenAI, a nonprofit research group that aims for the safe development of the technology.” (Tim Higgins, WSJ, July 17, 2017)

    What should scare people the most is the fact that AI lacks cognition. It is a machine and is unaware of who/what it is. Some people, those who have mental issues, Do not have self recognition. They do not have an answer to “Who am I?” A question that AI developers should ask is; “Do these machines think?” My answer is NO!


     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Privacy should be important, anyone can find anything on you, especially if you are using the same username everywhere, I've doxxed a number of people who have disrespected me. The last one was on Reddit, got myself banned for doing it. XD

    Knowing the damage I am capable of, I use fake names on Facebook, multiple usernames, passwords and emails.

    You would be amazed at the stuff I have found on people. (XXX, home address, jail records, spouses, phone numbers, work, etc.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hi BreakTheWalls,
    The reasons you give are the reasons I don’t do any of the standard Apps, popular sites, etc. I see that you are student of Computational Mathematics & Programing. You may like the book that I’ve quoted from recently, “The Great Unknown” by Marcus Du Sautoy.

    What do you think these robots are doing? Collecting everything you put online! They analyze, compare and identify users. That information is shared with every government, company, corporation, bank, and anyone else interested in paying for the information. "Oh, Mr./Mrs/Miss, we found that you recently purchased a (fill in the blank), We know what you like, we have information about your affair on (fill in the site), etc." :eek: :(
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It's interesting you bring this up. I have an Amazon Echo, and Google has an AI competition ongoing right now. In order to be a part of the competition you ask Alexa to chat, and she will say "Welcome to the Alexa prize." at which point she will open any number of chat bots to converse with, and at the end you can vote and offer commentary on your conversation.

    Most bots cannot continue a conversation after an initial statement, but only reply to your answer. Increasingly I am noticing bots that can remember their last sentence, combine my answer with it, then follow through on that subject with their next statement. This shows a complexity that I have not noticed in AI until recently, and one I knew was the next step. For I've actually been involved with chat bots going back some 15 years or more, and even spent some time programming them back in the day...

    Quite interesting where AI is, but we should take Elon Musks advice perhaps...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    One of the things robots lack is consciousness. Self awareness.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yet... ;)

    As a side note I've read some of what Musk and Gates have said, and it sounds like they've seen something that has questioned weather whether we've seen the beginnings of awareness in machines, and reading between the lines, they didn't like what they saw, they speak of demons...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Is this cognition? Self awareness? Hmmmm! 49 years ago. A classic story and film.

    HAL 9000: "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I should probably have started another forum subject, but the subject matter is still about what will happen to privacy and robots/AI.

    It appears that Elon Musk stepped on Mark Zuckerberg’s AI toes. Musk already has too much money. At least it looks like he is aware of the problems that AI can cause. One of his self driving cars caused an accident that killed the passenger/driver, due to failure of the AI system.

    Mark Zuckerberg has no real experience with AI, other than his experiments with AI information gathering on Facebook. Musk said, “”I keep sounding the alarm bell,” Musk told the National Governors Association in June. “But until people see robots going down the street killing people, they don’t know how to react because it seems so ethereal.” Zuckerberg called Musk’s dire warnings overblown and described himself as “optimistic.” “People who are naysayers and try to drum up these doomsday scenarios – I don't understand it,” Zuckerberg said while taking questions via a Facebook Live broadcast. “It's really negative, and in some ways, I actually think it is pretty irresponsible.”

    Musk said Zuckerberg was out of his element. “I’ve talked to Mark about this,” Musk wrote. “His understanding of the subject is limited.” Zuckerberg is known for his measured public statements but also his confidence that technology will genuinely improve the world. Musk, on the other hand, is not afraid to make eyebrow-raising remarks on many topics, be it the danger of self-aware computer networks or his theory that we're actually characters living inside a simulation.

    While speaking at the governors meeting, Musk made the case for government regulation of AI, arguing that the technology could raise a “fundamental risk to the existence of civilization.”
    http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-zuckerberg-ai-20170725-story.html

    The “living inside a simulation” comment is likely referring to the movie “The Thirteenth Floor”. If you haven’t seen it, look for it online and watch it. It was mentioned by Chuck Missler Beyond Space and Time. Very interesting indeed! :eek:
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Privacy rights at risk as tech giants tap into users’ data
    McClatchy Washington Bureau
    by Tim Johnson

    It’s an experience every computer or smart phone user has had. After downloading new software or an app, a window pops up with a legal agreement. At the bottom is an “I agree” button. One click, and it’s gone. Most users have no clue what they’ve agreed to.

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/technology/article166489012.html

    "The Voice" - Alan Parsons Project


    It's almost a feeling you can touch in the air,
    You look all around you but nobody's there.
    It's been a long time now since you've been aware
    That someone is watching you...(he's gonna get you)...

    Sooner or later when your big chances come,
    You'll look for the catches but there'll be none.
    Remember before you grab the money and run
    That someone is watching you...(he's gonna get you)...

    Before you run and hide
    He's gonna get you.
    You got no choice,
    'Cause you can't escape the voice.

    (Instrumental Interlude)

    Jumping at shadows that come up from behind.
    Scared of the darkness that's there in your mind,
    You're frightened to move because of what you might find...
    Someone is watching you...(he's gonna get you)...

    Before you run and hide
    He's gonna get you.
    You got no choice,
    'Cause you can't escape the voice.

    HAL 9000: "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that" :eek:
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Vets group sues Pentagon for not protecting private military records of millions of troops
    http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article166754722.html#storylink=indep

    Unfortunately this guy was dumb enough to give information over the phone to a scammer. Never, ever, give any information to someone claiming to be a representative of a computer company!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I happened to be looking for an old file of a paper I wrote a long time ago, and came across this article from 2013. What was it that Solomon said about "nothing new under the sun?

    Selling secrets of phone users to advertisers


    By NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
    October 05, 2013
    SAN FRANCISCO -- Once, only hairdressers and bartenders knew people’s secrets.
    Now, smart-phones know everything -- where people go, what they search for, what they buy, what they do for fun and when they go to bed.

    That is why advertisers, and tech companies like Google and Facebook, are finding new, sophisticated ways to track people on their phones and reach them with individualized, hypertargeted ads. And they are doing it without cookies, those tiny bits of code that follow users around the Internet, because cookies don’t work on mobile devices.

    Privacy advocates fear that consumers do not realize just how much of their private information is on their phones and how much is made vulnerable simply by downloading and using apps, searching the mobile Web or even just going about daily life with a phone in your pocket.

    Drawbridge is one of several startups that has figured out how to follow people without cookies, and to determine that a cellphone, work computer, home computer and tablet belong to the same person, even if the devices are in no way connected. Before, logging onto a new device presented advertisers with a clean slate.

    “We’re observing your behaviors and connecting your profile to mobile devices,” said Eric Rosenblum, chief operating officer at Drawbridge. But don’t call it tracking.

    “Tracking is a dirty word,” he said.

    Drawbridge, founded by a former Google data scientist, says it has matched 1.5 billion devices this way, allowing it to deliver mobile ads based on websites the person has visited on a computer. If you research a Hawaiian vacation on your work desktop, you could see a Hawaii ad that night on your personal cellphone.

    In the old days - just last year - digital advertisers relied mostly on cookies. But cookies do not attach to apps, which is why they do not work well on mobile phones and tablets.

    For many advertisers, cookies are becoming irrelevant anyway because they want to reach people on their mobile devices.

    This is why a service that connects multiple devices with one user is so compelling to marketers.

    Drawbridge has partnerships with various online publishers and ad exchanges. These send partners a notification every time a user visits a website or mobile app, which is considered an opportunity to show an ad. Drawbridge watches the notifications for behavioral patterns and uses statistical modeling to determine the probability that several devices have the same owner and to assign that person an anonymous identifier.

    Other companies, such as Flurry, get to know people by the apps they use.

    Flurry embeds its software in 350,000 apps on 1.2 billion devices to help app developers track factors such as usage . Its software appears automatically when those apps are downloaded. It recently introduced an ad market place to send advertisers anonymized profiles of users the moment they open an app. The company has specific data about users that it does not yet use because of privacy concerns, said Rahul Bafna, senior
    director of Flurry.

    Wireless carriers know even more about us from our home ZIP codes. Verizon announced in December that its customers could authorize it to share that information with advertisers in exchange for coupons. AT&T announced this summer that it would start selling aggregated customer data to marketers, while offering a way to opt out.

    Neither state nor federal law prohibits the collection or sharing of data by third parties.
    In California, app developers are required to post a privacy policy and to clearly state what personal information they collect and how they share it. Still, that leaves much mystery for ordinary mobile users.

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “A privacy policy is a statement or a legal document (in privacy law) that discloses some or all of the ways a party gathers, uses, discloses, and manages a customer or client’s data.”

    The following is an article written for the Wall Street Journal: Monday, April 23, 2018. It addresses the issues of “Online Privacy”. I have addressed all of these issues previously. I have also mentioned the so-called “privacy policy” statements by certain Internet sites and “Apps”. Essentially YOU are signing away YOUR privacy. The only privacy is the fact that they (sites) are protecting “their hidden rights to use all of YOUR information! YOU have no rights. Oh, what is that mark on YOUR forehead and hand?
    ____________________________________

    KEYWORDS | By Christopher Mims

    Google’s Practices Threaten Privacy, Too

    Recent controversy over Facebook’s hunger for personal data has surfaced the notion that the online advertising industry could be hazardous to our privacy and well-being.

    As justifiable as the focus on Facebook has been, though, it isn’t the full picture. If the concern is that companies might be collecting some personal data without our knowledge or explicit consent, Alphabet’s Google is a far bigger threat by many measures: the volume of information it gathers, the reach of its tracking and the time people spend on its sites and apps.

    New regulations, particularly in Europe, are driving Google and others to disclose more and seek more permissions from users. And given the choice, many people might even be fine with the trade-off of personal data for services. Still, to date few of us realize the extent to which our data is being collected and used.

    “There is a systemic problem and it’s not limited to Facebook,” says Arvind Narayanan, a computer scientist and assistant professor at Princeton University. The larger problem, he argues, is that the very business model of these companies is geared to privacy violation. We need to understand Google’s role in this.

    Google allows everyone, whether they have a Google account or not, to opt out of its ad targeting. Yet, like Facebook, it continues to gather your data.

    Google Analytics is the web’s most dominant analytics platform. Used on the sites of about half of the biggest companies in the U.S., it has a reach of 30 million to 50 million sites. Google Analytics tracks you whether or not you are logged in.

    Meanwhile, the billion plus people who have Google accounts are tracked in even more ways. In 2016, Google changed its terms of service, allowing it to merge its trove of tracking and advertising data with the personally identifiable information from our Google accounts.

    Google uses, among other things, our browsing and search history, apps we’ve installed, demographics such as age and gender and, from its own analytics and other sources, where we’ve shopped in the real world. Google says it doesn’t use information from “sensitive categories” such as race, religion, sexual orientation or health. Because it relies on cross-device tracking, it can spot logged-in users no matter which device they’re on.

    This is why Google and Facebook are dominant in online advertising. By pouring huge amounts of our personal data into the latest artificial-intelligence technology, they can determine who—and where—we really are, whether or not we reveal ourselves voluntarily.

    Google fuels even more data harvesting through its ad marketplaces. There are as many as 4,000 data brokers in the U.S., and collectively they know everything about us we might otherwise prefer they didn’t—whether we’re pregnant, divorced or trying to lose weight. Google works with some of these brokers directly but the company says it vets them to prevent targeting based on sensitive information.

    While data brokers can sell this information to anyone who might be interested, many of their customers are marketers who need another component: Google’s AI, which delivers “look alike” audiences—people similar to the ones in the brokers’ data.

    Google also is the biggest enabler of data harvesting, through the world’s two billion active Android mobile devices. Because Google’s Android OS helps companies gather data on us, Google is also partly to blame when troves of that data are later used improperly, says Woodrow Hartzog, a professor of law and computer science at Northeastern University.

    A good example of this is the way Facebook has harvested Android users’ call and text history. Facebook never got this level of access from Apple’s iPhone, whose operating system is designed to permit less under-the-hood data collection. Android OS often allows apps to request rich data from users without accompanying warnings about how the data might be used.

    To be listed in Google’s Android app store, developers must agree to request only the information they need. But that doesn’t stop them from using “needed” data for additional purposes.

    Designers call the ways marketers and developers cajole and mislead us into giving up our data “dark patterns,” tactics that exploit limits in our cognition.

    Google bans what it calls deceptive requests for user data, such as obscuring opt-out buttons. At issue is whether Google goes far enough. But Google itself uses what are arguably dark patterns to get people to switch to its own apps for things such as email.

    Android users of the Gmail app will be asked to enable access to the device’s camera and microphone again and again until they say yes. Similarly, on Android droid, Google Maps asks users to turn on location services—justifiable, but this enables geo-targeted ads.

    All of this is ostensibly done with your permission. But it’s hard to understand how even an expert could give meaningful informed consent to the average data request, says Dr. Narayanan.

    New European Union privacy rules are forcing companies to make comprehensible to mere mortals what data they gather and how they use it. But in many cases, Google is pushing responsibility for obtaining data-gathering permissions to advertisers.

    It isn’t as if Google is unaware of the issues inherent in its business model. The company opposes the California Consumer Privacy Act, a November ballot measure, on the grounds it is vague and unworkable. It would grant consumers three protections: “the right to tell a business not to share or sell your personal information, the right to know where and to whom your data is being sold or shared, and the right to know that your service providers are protecting your information.” Even Facebook dropped its opposition to this act.

    The solution might be simple: Build better tools to give us a clear understanding of what we’re opting into. If given clear choices, many people might be fine with their data being collected. But it’s just as likely they would refuse, in ways that could affect Google’s bottom line.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I am aware that we have to acknowledge the use of "cookies" when using this site. But I don't like the sneaky way they keep popping up behind the scenes. I regularly check and delete them in my preferences. Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, and . . . . . . . .
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Due to recent information about "hackers" breaking into "Facebook", I would like to have the administrators of this site remove "Facebook" from automatically attaching "cookies" when we sign in. Other wise, I have no choice than to remove my account.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    I have decided to stop signing on and opening the door to any information I post to "Facebook", "Twitter", "Doubleclick", and others.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Does not what we share here, assist others? People in search of knowledge may just search a subject we discuss here. Don't we want that?

    No ones ever breached our forum, all members email addresses are secure. After all, that's all the info we have here, as regards our members. In all these years, the same individual that has always hosted Roberts web-sights, assists us here too...

    What are you so afraid of, that someone might read what you say? It sounds as though you don't have much faith in what you type here...

    With all do respect brother...
     

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