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Discussion in 'Shout Box' started by wallflower, Feb 2, 2013.

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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    "The important thing is not what we live in but what we look for."

    Dr George Morrisson
    Scottish preacher
    Please compare with Mat. 7:21 : "“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter
    into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
    "
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    "Faith enables the believing soul to treat the future as present and the invisible as seen."

    Dr. J. Oswald Sanders​
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    Talking about the relationship between the Old and New Testaments


    "The New is in the Old concealed; the Old is by the New revealed."

    St. Augustine​
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    "L'Adversaire a deux moyens de nous priver des bénédictions d'une vérité biblique : ou il nous la cache, ou il en fait une pomme de discorde."

    Alfred Kuen​

    The Adversary has two means to deprive us of the blessings of a biblical truth : either he hides it from us or he makes it a bone of contention.
     
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    Utuna

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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    There is a story about the Greek scientist Anaxagoras, who thought that the sun and moon were made of the same substance as the earth.
    When a flaming rock from space fell down somewhere near Athens, he took it as a confirmation of his theory.

    This should be a cautionary tale for people who try to fit a limited number of observations to their theories too aggressively.

    (Later on Anaxagoras was exiled from Athens for suggesting that the sun was larger than any Greek island, maybe even larger than the Peloponnese.)
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Is it just me or doesn't that flaming rock confirm that Anaxagoras was right? It would seem to me a confirmation of his theory.

    Maybe I don't understand the point, but it sure looks to me like he confirmed his theory, and others were to blind to see it, or lacked the knowledge to recognize it.
     
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    Utuna

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Our current understanding on how the solar system was formed says each body within coalesced from a flat expanse of dust and debris. Therefore any objects left over from that process are made up of the same material all planets in our solar system including the sun are made of.

    So this gentlemen was correct, and that debris was confirmation that the heavenly bodies were made up of the same material as earth.

    Unless I'm missing your point...
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    You forgot Big Boss.... ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Same deal brother, the sun collected the same debris and gases as every other object in our solar system, it just grew large enough to start nuclear fusion.

    As far as current held cosmology.

    "Shooting stars" are simply time capsules of our early solar system when planets were forming.

    http://www.astronomyforbeginners.com/

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This subject may be hard to contemplate, understand, or “blow your mind”. The author is an acquaintance of mine. We have some deep conversations about once a week, whenever we happen to run into each other. He wrote this article in 1997 for the New Energy News. I tried to read this to my wife, but she said it was like I was speaking Russian. She refused to listen because she could not understand a word of it. So, here is the link. “Light Is The Ghost Of Mass”. My conversation started when I mentioned the statement people say, “empty space”, as space is full of particles we can’t see. Some scientists call it “dark energy”.

    “Light Is The Ghost Of Mass”
    http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_2_5.html

    There is another pdf of his speech to the Toastmasters in Sacramento, California in 2013. This one may be easier to understand. It’s only 3-1/2 pages long.
    http://www.chucksez.com/Light-is-th...asters-in-Sacramento-CA-on-August-14-2013.pdf

    After you have read this, I have a question, or statement, I will wonder if you reach the same conclusion. I’ll have to ask Chuck the same thing, the next time I see him.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    To me an aether concept is a bit out of date. I prefer current string theory and m-theory models that state gravitons are closed loops which allow them to float free of our membrane to interact with others within the local group, giving the illusion gravity is a weaker force then the other three.

    An electron just like any other form of matter on our membrane would be an open loop, attached at either end to this plain. The vibrations of these strings gives us the particle based on its frequency. Meaning one could create any form of matter from an electron if one could simply change it's vibration state. Said another way, God is a musician.

    I understand what he is saying about the collapse of matter creating a helical spiral, and yes light is effected by mass, but he claims light speed changes depending on that interaction, and from what I understand that is impossible according to the standard model in relativity. Yes its frequency changes depending on the red shift, but nothing more.

    Gravity must be a product of space itself, not mass, or energy, for it is space that keeps us grounded, not the mass itself... Therefore the most recent models of close loop gravitons seems cleaner to me then energy transfer for gravity.

    Although frame dragging has always fascinated me, I've tried to wrap my mind around that one, but Jehovah's creation is of course beyond us all. Unless that's what your friend means by light traveling faster, when encountering this effect... Then we get into the possibility of traveling faster then light without actually breaking that light barrier, by manipulating space instead. But as for the light itself, it never breaks it's own law, it's only the outside observer that sees the differential. So light speed never really changes, only the perspective of the observer.

    Then we get into the Bohr Einstein debate, "is the moon really there if we are not looking at it?" What is observation, does the universe need us to exist? What is consciousness?

    Okay, good place to stop...lol o_O
     
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    Utuna

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    Question/statement please... :)
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    Yes, all three are made of the same substance... o_O
     
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    Joshuastone7

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    Am I still missing something? The standard model says that the same gasses that made up the sun made up the rock of the planets. At least as far as current cosmology.
     
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    Utuna

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    No biggie ! You are just projecting your own understanding of modern knowledge related to cosmology on words uttered by a man who lived 2500 years ago.

    He said :

    "The heavenly bodies, he asserted, were masses of stone torn from the earth and ignited by rapid rotation. He explained that, though both sun and the stars were fiery stones, we do not feel the heat of the stars because of their enormous distance from earth."

    Source


    The "rock" of the planets isn't made of gas but of atoms which make up solid, liquid and gaseous (plasma at times => solar wind) matter in/on them. The atoms heavier than iron are produced by powerful phenomena which can only happen during supernovae. As Hubert Reeves said, we all are dust of blown stars because we are made of elements that only supernovae can produce, which also means that the Sun is at least a second-hand star....

    If you had one dollar (i.e. 100% of the Sun), O2 accounts only for about 8 cents... carbon about 4 cents..., (respectively almost 1 and 0,4 cents when it comes to the weight ratio) which means that besides Hydrogen and Helium, the rest of the Sun's content is definitely negligible. :)

    [​IMG]

    The point of it all was that said Anaxagoras got to know what a shooting star consists of, that is a rock that catches fire way up high on its way down to Earth and simplistically deduced that the stars were made of blazing rock.... He was right in that his observation of the nature of that which a shooting star is made of was correct but his conclusions regarding the Earth and the Sun were erroneous.

    Said otherwise, simplistic associations of ideas are easy come-ons to the average ignoramus or to their spiritually-donaught counterparts.....
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Then again the current held understanding of how our moon came to be could confirm his hypothesis as well...lol As well, he was spot on about the stars.

    I still hold that it appears he was far ahead of his time, whether he had the exact details is irrelevant, no one ever does, but he was far more right then his naysayers...

    :p

    As for the make up of our solar system, I am only quoting what the current model says, that the planets are developed from the same material gasses as the sun.

    Yes the material must be formed in a supernova as current understanding says, but it also says it takes another, a second supernova just to compact that material.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Tsaphah, following up on this thread... :)
     
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    Utuna

    Utuna Member

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    "Tous les êtres humains sont manipulés... Dans les ténèbres, l’écriture a fixé dans la pierre et le papier des idées qui sont devenues la lumière et la vérité pour les papillons que nous étions..."

    All the human beings are manipulated... In the pitch of darkness, writing sealed in stone and paper ideas that have become the light and the truth for the butterflies that we were...
     
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