SingleCell, if I am right, then that makes the mark of the beast available to be understood a little better as well. What if it isn't wrong doing by the WTS that brings them into the public eye and scrutiny, but a refusal to follow some law? As I continue to read these scriptures in Revelation 13 it starts to look like the little horn comes against Gods people because of something they wont do, rather then what they already have done, but with a twist, that some are led away, and that seems to occur after the fire comes from heaven, let me explain;

Rev 13:13 "And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind."

Rev 13:16,17 "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name"

Now the next scriptures I want to bring up is from Dan 8:11,12. Does the transgression in this scripture mean transgression toward the covenant with God, or transgression toward the horn?

(Side note, you know what I just thought of? The second beast in Rev 13 I have said is the Roman Catholic conglomeration, well it just so happens in Chapter 8 Rome is shown as a small horn, and as I've said the Catholic church as the small horn in chapter 7, so therefore those are the two horns of both Dan 7 & 8 and as well the second beast in Rev 13. I've just never looked at it that way till this moment. Lambs have small horn, and they are the two small horns from 7 & 8 of Daniel.)

Back to the transgression;

Dan 8:11,12 "It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."

Now in verse 13 it brings it up again;

Dan 8:13 “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?â€

It is the transgression that will cause the downfall of the constant feature by the horn, but is it transgression toward God, or the horn? Keep in mind the transgression comes before the constant feature is removed.

Then we come to Dan 11:30;

Dan 11:30 “He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant."

Now, this scripture says that the kofn hurls denunciations against the holy covenant and acts effectively, at which point after it says it gives attention to those leaving the covenant. So the wording of this scripture makes it sound like these ones only leave once the denunciations are hurled, and then they start to leave after that and help with the downfall of the constant feature. This would be after the first trumpet and after the fire comes down to heaven upon the WTS we were discussing.

Now the next scriptures in Chapter 11 discuss further these ones who fall away;

Dan 11:32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively."

It appears that these ones who act wickedly against the covenant are the ones that were leaving the covenant that the kofn gave attention to in verse 30, and that this "leading them into apostasy" occurs after the denunciations are hurled. Therefore after the fire of the first trumpet and after the end begins. This is where you start to see that the apostasy may come after the end begins, after the first trumpet, after the fire from heaven sign of the lamb horned beast.

Then we have 2Th 2;

2Th 2:2,3 "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction."

Now this scripture says the apostasy must come first. First before what? Before the day of Jehovah. Now, what is the day of Jehovah? The hurling of denunciations? the constant feature being removed? Jesus being enthroned? The disgusting thing being place? Or is it the day that starts Armageddon? We all here know the WTS has broadcast the day of Jehovah has begun in 1914, arbitrarily, but it seems clear that this is the moment Jehovah actually acts to bring destruction on his enemies, correct? And this is well after, years after the start of these other events.

Could the man of lawlessness being revealed be the same as the ones leaving the covenant the kotn lures as spoken of in Dan 11:30? I would say it clearly is, both scriptures talk about the apostasy and leading men away by smooth words, but Dan 11:32 says this leading away is after the denunciations are hurled. So it would seem we can clearly say that the apostasy doesn't come before the end begins, and that the day of Jehovah is not the beginning of the end. So therefore the apostasy comes after the denunciations are hurled down as the fire in the first trumpet and sign of the second beast of Rev 13, and it's only after that the kotn lures in the MOL and others away from the covenant that acts as the apostasy, and it is probably this very thing that is the apostasy just as Dan 11:32 "And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words."

Now 2Th 2:4 gives us another time reference;

2Th 2:4 "He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."

(Note, this subject will be discussed as if everyone agrees that the MOL is a Governing Body member. If you don't agree, I understand and we've discussed it before, so no need to post an objection on this thread to the MOL comments, because this individual could just as well be someone who simply claims to be a brother of Christ even after the WTS comes into public view.)

With that said, the temple is intact while the man sits within showing himself as a god, but we know from Rev 11:2 that it is the courtyard of the temple that is surrounded for 1260 days, not the temple destroyed at that time. So is this telling us that this man continues to present himself as one of Christs brothers even after the denunciations, and after the apostasy is revealed? Does he ally the WTS with the beast after teh fire of the first trumpet, allowing himself to be lured in by the kotn?

Well, the next scriptures tell us how long this individual will continue to be deceived and deceive;

2Th 2:8 "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence."

So, when does Christ Jesus get rid of this one? At the denunciations? The constant feature being removed? No, it looks like the moment he is crowned;

2Tim 4:8 "From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation."

1Tim 6:13-15 "Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,"

Now, when is Jesus's manifestation? Is it when the end begins, or when he is enthroned? It seems to mean when Christ Jesus is seen in the clouds while gathering his brothers, then it appears this MOL will be standing there unaffected by the event.

My commentary on 2Th can be found here; (2Th 2) The Restraint & MOL

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that when you put everything together then we have two things going on here. We have something that the kotn doesn't like that brings them to hurl denunciations, and it appears to be for reasons that they wont worship the image, then at some point lures some of Christs brothers over to their side, which very well may be the apostasy itself, since it appears that all these things occur after the first trumpet and the hurling by the kotn.

Now, last but not least we have the "operation of error". If you've read my post on 2Th 2 that I left a link for just above then you know I identify the "operation of error" as the 1914 misunderstanding, or the declaration that the "day of Jehovah is here", just as mentioned in 2Th 2:2. So even though this error is present and perhaps is the very reason the WTS has to go down, along with the NGO, and the child cases, handling of true prophets, the apostasy can be seen as a different subject, and the two are not the same. While the "operation of error" continues in the temple for some time before the end, it would appear the apostasy is something the kotn lures some of Christs brothers into after the end begins.

Man, I better stop here or I'm just going to keep typing for ever.... But it appears the apostasy of Dan 11:32 is the same apostasy in 2Th 2!

 

Good point about Daniels test, perhaps that's why that story was put into the book. It's the same with the three brothers that wouldn't worship the image, they were to be punished because of not worshiping the image by fire, so basically tested and refined like gold in the fire. This is exactly the same that will happen with the first trumpet. The fire comes down on the third, and it's the third that are refined. It appears the same event with the lion pit as well. It's about worshiping the image, and if they don't they will be punished, and that appears to be where the apostasy comes in.

It appears that the apostasy comes after the initial fire from heaven by the lamb horned beast and the little horn in the first trumpet. So it looks like the kotn determines the WTS isn't doing something it wants it too, and this becomes public knowledge, then after this the WTS tries to compromise with the beast when they are lured in by the smooth words, and that is what becomes the apostasy that must come first before the day of Jehovah. Then shortly after the constant feature is removed.

So basically it's the first four trumpets that talk about those who are still worshiping Jehovah in truth, and then the first four bowls are toward those who are led astray into the apostasy after once being part of the covenant.

PS: It would appear that each of those stories of Daniel and his friends are metaphors for both when the constant feature is removed and also when the disgusting thing is placed. We kind of already figured this with the image that was 6 cubits, but your point really brings out how these stories will play them self out in the end.