Nope, that is not what I said. Neither do I. There is a 'sign' given of his coming. It is the sun, moon, star event after the tribulation. [24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]
No, "the sign" is different from 'sun, moon and stars being darkened,' and comes after that, to wit: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then [Gr tote, after the preceding] the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Mat 24:29,30 Harry
Wrong, the darkening of sun, moon and stars are not the sign, but will precede it; here is why: "τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ υἱοῦ τ. ἀνθρ. accordingly the sign inquired about in Matthew 24:3, that phenomenon, namely, which is immediately to precede the coming Messiah, the Son of man of Daniel 7:13, and which is to indicate that His second advent is now on the point of taking place, which is to be the signal of this latter event. As Jesus does not say what this is to be, it should be left quite indefinite; only this much may be inferred from what is predicted at Matthew 24:29 about the darkening of the heavenly bodies, that it must be of the nature of a manifestation of light, the dawning of the Messianic δόξα which is perhaps to go on increasing in brilliancy and splendour until the Messiah Himself steps forth from the midst of it in the fullness of His glory." Meyer's NT commentary "Matthew 24:30. Τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, the sign of the Son of Man[1055]) This is a more special sign; those which are mentioned in Luke 21:25 precede it, and are more general. Bengel's Gnomen Harry
Which is it, the sun. moon, stars event is either the 'sign' or not. But according to what you showed, they are a 'sign', they will just be followed up by a 'more special sign'. I guess when we start seeing sun. moon, stars event, that we are told that when that starts happening to lift our heads because our deliverance is getting near, meaning Jesus is about to come, and in contrast others are in fear wanting to hide because it means destruction for them, I guess at the last minute after seeing the sun. moon, stars event (That is not the 'sign' but yet is the 'sign', just not the 'special sign'.) for a while, all of the sudden a light will kick on like the BAT sign, but it will say JC instead.
The sign: "Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Jesus actually coming and being seen is not the 'sign' that he is coming. The 'sign' is like if you go to a movie or concert, and you are in the theater or venue, and they start to dim the lights and play music you know at that time the movie is about to start or the band is about to come out on stage. Everyone starts reacting already based on what they know is about to start. That is what is said about the sun, moon, star event that takes place after the tribulation. There are those that see it and are in grief/fear and want to hide and those that stand up straight/lift their heads. Watch until 2:50min... U2 - Mofo (FULL INTRO) - LIVE FROM POP MART TOUR - MEXICO CITY 1997 #4K #REMASTERED - YouTube
Sorry, man; I'm not a U2 fan... And I don't see how a U2 concert applies. That must have been a mistake. Regardless, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." The word you must focus on is, Then. The sign of the son of man occurs after the signs in the sun and moon. The text then goes on to describe the sign of the Son of Man: "They will see the Son of Man in the clouds." In the Greek, the context flow must be continuous unless otherwise changed by the writer. Without capitalization or paragraph structure, this is how they wrote, in continuity of context. Joshua
It was not a mistake, it does apply, and has nothing to do with being a U2 fan or not. It goes along with what I was saying. [25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”] [24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.]
Alvy, no one is a mind reader. I have no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for. I don't assume, if your trying to say something, say it. I see nothing there that applies. Why don't you offer some context, huh? What do you say? Again, all you are doing is copying and pasting scriptures. I have the same scriptures, but I apparently understand them differently than you. If you can describe your understanding of them, that would be great. Because the scriptures you quote agree with what I've said... Would you like to offer some context as to why you read these scriptures as you do? "And then" means after the signs in the sun and moon. Joshua
Oh my goodness. I feel high talking to you or that you are purposely messing with me. What don't you see it what I say. I said this: Watching the video intro up until they start walking out to go on stage...is like seeing the sun, moon, stars first before Jesus comes. They see lights and hear music but don't see the band members yet because they are still yet to come out. But the audience in seeing the lights and hearing that music they are in expectation that the band will soon come out. Then the band does come out and they now see them at that point. This is why and what I am talking about in citing this: [25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”] There it shows that when people see the sign in the sun, moon, stars (Which takes place after the tribulation.) they will be in expectation that Jesus is soon to come. Knowing that, people start to react at that time during seeing the sun, moon, stars event. There are two different reactions. Those who are in fear because they know they have the MOTB and will soon receive God's wrath now that Jesus is about to come. The other reaction is from those that did not take the MOTB. These ones stand up straight and lift their heads because Jesus coming means deliverance/relief for them because they were living under the tribulation brought upon them for refusing to support the 8th king up until that very point. [7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]
You said to watch the video, so I assumed I was looking for something specific. I didn't need a U2 concert to understand how people anticipate something. I can't stand them anyway... Alvy, that is irrelevant. If you are discussing specifically what the sign of the Son of Man is, it is not the signs in the sun and moon. The signs of the sun and moon come before the sign of the Son of Man. Recognizing the signs of the sun and moon has nothing to do with the sign of the Son of Man, except that they immediately predate it. It's obvious that when you see the signs in the sun and moon, the sign of the Son of Man is soon. Why are we discussing this? Joshua
I just had said to watch the first 2:50min to go along with what I said. LOL, I guess we are done now!
In comparing the Luke account you cite with both Matthew's and Mark's, this, to me, also corroborates that 'the sign' [singular, as asked by the disciples, 'the sign'] of Christ's coming is different, and separate, from 'the signs' here that will be in, of, or pertaining to sun, moon and stars, because the two other writers define them as sun and moon turning dark, stars falling from heaven, and powers in heaven being shaken; hence, 'the sign' of the Son of man will be in surplus of, and coming after the 'celestial phenomena.' These details may seem trivial to some, but remember where such needless imprecision can lead to, as seen with WT's 'composite sign' shtick. Harry