Your still not seeing the whole picture.

You insert, 'two' into the text in Luke, why? Where is the direct connection between these scriptures and the two witnesses? Do you think the two witnesses would just be alone during the whole time of the end?

That was in error in your part, the two witness are killed, but not all of the anointed are. Please reread 1Cor 15:51, Rev 14:12~14, and notice that Luke 21:16 says only some of you will be killed. Rev 11 clearly says the two witnesses will be killed.

 

Of course more then just the two will be killed, Jesus told us that, but as well others would not be. That in itself should tell you there is a paradox with the two witnesses. Why would Rev 11 say all of the anointed would be killed, if Jesus and John clearly said that not all would be killed?

That actually is not how I would read Luke 21, there is no direct connection to the scriptures you posted and the two witnesses of Rev 11 and Zech 4. I take the bible as a whole and the only explanation left remaining must be the right answer.

The 3.5 days have to be literal if the 1260 are.

Not all of the 144,000 remaining will be killed, although Rev 11 says the two will be killed.

lf you see them representing the whole 144k, then the 3.5 days can not be figurative nor literal, what would they represent then?

Zech 4 clearly describes the two in Rev 11 as two individuals.

There are many precedence's in scripture of two individuals going out and bring truth to the world.

Now as for there being evidence somewhere else that two individuals would be killed separate from the rest as a message to the world, my response to that is where else other then Rev do we read about a 1000 year reign? Where else do we read of an exact number of 144,000? So that is a non-issue to me, the answers must still coincide with the entire bible.

I do say there are many examples of two throughout scripture that are first gleams of these two, yet we know obviously there will be others with them. However, the chronology and verbiage of Rev 11, and Zech 4 make it impossible that anything other the two witnesses being individuals.

You have to many paradoxes thinking otherwise.

 

Funny, and your giving away all of our secrets! lol

It's been what, 7 years now? That's a long time... I suppose it's funny we can have these debates on the DB and at the same time ask how the family is and what we're doing that day through IM's...lol

It is true, all aspects of our relationship over the years has allowed me to grow in knowledge to the point I am now. From the original DB under Robert, to our current form starting in 2013. Can you believe this current forum's birth date of two years is almost here? But without our different abilities it would not have challenged me over the years and that's what I take from strong debates we have had. I can think of numerous ways I have benefited from our apposing opinions.

Now as for me making light of the French, surely not. I have heard of this French resistance and I can see it clearly in your unwavering stance against the two individuals, even in the light of undeniable reasoning, but I would never say anything about your wonderful country as whole...

But pictures can speak a thousand words...lol

 

In reality it's true what John said: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves."

 

After some research, I think it's clear the answer now...

Jer 5:12-14 “They have denied Jehovah, and they keep saying, 'He will do nothing. No calamity will come upon us; We will not see sword or famine.’ The prophets are full of wind, And the word is not in them. Let this happen to them!â€￾ Therefore this is what Jehovah, the God of armies, says: “Because these men are saying this, Here I am making my words a fire in your mouth, And this people is the wood, And it will consume them.â€￾ The words these two will speak to the nonbelievers who wish them harm will be from God, and will condemn them in their arrogance. Now as for the rain, it would appear that Elijah (also representative of one of the two witnesses) in 1Kings 17 stopped the rain for a total of 1260 days:

James 5:17; "E·li′jah was a man with feelings like ours, and yet when he prayed earnestly for it not to rain, it did not rain on the land for three years and six months."

It should seem obvious that this time period mirrors the 1260 days of the two witnesses prophesying. Rev 11:6; "These have the authority to shut up the sky so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying," So therefore the idea is that this time period is for the whole 1260 days. Then at the end of the 1260 days James says; "Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the land produced fruit." This appears to follow the Chronology of the moment the Holy Spirit is poured out. So therefore the "no rain" represents the trampling of Jerusalem for that 1260 days, and agreeing with chronology, the Holy Spirit is poured out at the end of those 1260. Holy Spirit=Rain.

The turning the waters into blood is an easy one. Moses prophesied to Pharaoh plagues that were coming on his kingdom. It is the Moses-fulfilled witness in the end who will have in his possession the prophecies that will come true, and these will be what brings them world wide fame when they begin to come true just as they said they would.

I'm sure you could expound on this SinglCell, it's a little outside my expertise and more toward yours. But the foundation appears strong, and as well it matches chronology.

 

Well said Joshua!

We're still looking through a 'hazy mirror', but I think this discussion at least gives us the notion that there aren't any absolutes regarding the two witnesses quite yet, other than the key point: the two witnesses will help establish the legal case against Satan and his slander.

 

Agreed... It is interesting though, living in our times. I do not believe I could be where I am at in understanding without the internet. If I can't remember exactly where a scripture is, all I need to do is enter the sentence in a search, and it will pop right up. Also think about this DB and look at how much we can accomplish coming together all of us here in our discussion and how we sharpen the faces of each other. We make each other think, and research, and either confirm or except based on truth. Truly we live in the time when this grand collection of books are finally being unlocked, as his will decrees.

Jehovah's spirit is here, and I pray it continues to be, to protect our interchange of encouragement, and to help us all grow to a better understanding of accurate knowledge. I've realized along the way that if we would just have all had the same ideas and understandings we would not have grown so much in our spirituality however, since we are able to come together and have the freedom to do so, I can speak on my part that I can appreciate even the disagreements for I learn just as much if not more from them then two agree.

Such as this subject of the two witnesses...