I'm still confused about why you don't think Jesus is the rider of the white horse. If he isn't the rider of it then who is?
No, you are doing an excellent job, Joshua, at taxonomy of threads, truncating them where they veer off into different subject matter for the sake of easier reference; much appreciated; no easy task that - nothing sinister happening here, just forum housekeeping. Harry
Yes, perhaps that is because we carelessly and conveniently outsourced our divinely entrusted due diligence obligation regarding our beliefs and salvation to the people that have sold us their paradise soon package deal - take it or leave it, with no picking and choosing allowed - in exchange for relieving us of our responsibility before God, by their becoming mediators between us and Him, thereby replacing Jesus in the process. Whatever happened to, 'test the inspired expressions to see if they originate with God?' Is it too hard for us to do, or even impossible? Why, then, would He tell us to do so, if we weren't capable of figuring it out? Yes, it is more convenient to outsource the job, and then let others take the blame when it turns out wrong - 'we were just following orders, doing what we were told to do' - where have we heard that before, and will Nuremberg 2.0 be any different? So, yeah, I can identify with how you feel; been there, done that. By the way, I am totally new here myself. Harry
Have you noticed this? And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And out came another horse, bright red! And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! - Rev 6 "I saw in the night, and behold, a man riding on a red horse! He was standing among the myrtle trees in the glen, and behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses." Zech 1:8 "The first chariot had red horses, the second black horses, the third white horses, and the fourth chariot dappled horses—all of them strong. Then I answered and said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?” And the angel answered and said to me, “These are going out to the four winds of heaven, after presenting themselves before the Lord of all the earth. The chariot with the black horses goes toward the north country, the white ones go after them, and the dappled ones go toward the south country.” When the strong horses came out, they were impatient to go and patrol the earth. And he said, “Go, patrol the earth.” So they patrolled the earth. Then he cried to me, “Behold, those who go toward the north country have set my Spirit at rest in the north country.” Zech 6:2-8 Joshua
The WT 1914 explanation is tied to Lu 21:24: ' . . . and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled,' which was supposed to have been in 1914; but ask yourself: Who has been ruling the world since 1914, Jesus or Satan? Daniel 7 tells us what will happen when Jesus gets the kingdom: first comes the great tribulation on Christianity, which WT says is still future - when the little horn will make 'war upon the holy ones,' 'prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days comes and judgment itself is given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrives that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.' Da 7:21,22 Ask yourself: did Russell and the WT start ruling the world in 1914? The 'appointed times of the nations' in Lu 21:24, are for the purpose of 'trampling' ['desolating'] on 'Jerusalem,' which in the parallel account of Mat 24:15-22 is described as the 'disgusting thing' [the 'nations'] 'causing desolation' ['trampling'] to 'a holy place' ['Jerusalem'] during the coming great tribulation - can you see the direct correspondence between the two accounts of the same speech Jesus gave of the end times? The great tribulation was still future when Jesus spoke - and is still future now - and therefore the trampling on Jerusalem by the nations during their 'appointed times' has got to be future too - can you see that? In fact, Revelation 11:1-3 tells us about this 'appointed time' of 'trampling upon' the holy city of 'Jerusalem' by 'the nations' in the near future, saying: 'But as for the temple sanctuary . . . it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 month.' Hence, the 'appointed times of the nations' to 'trample upon Jerusalem' start at the great tribulation on Christianity, go on for 42 month, and are 'fulfilled' at Christ's return. There is a lot more to be said about why WT is wrong about 1914, such as their back to front definition of what parousia means: not 'invisible presence before coming,' but, coming before being present, by means of His coming on the clouds of Heaven in power and great glory; but that is for another day and subject. Harry
The color of the white horse could mean righteousness, but also merely the pretense of it in the person riding it. So why would Jesus lead a group of riders that cause death and destruction to the inhabitants of the earth, which at that time includes His faithful followers? Later on, at Armageddon, He is seen coming with the armies of Heaven to destroy His enemies, so why would He preempt that Day of Judgment, and join in causing havoc on earth indiscriminately before His time of taking vengeance? The main reason WT views the rider of the white horse as Jesus is because of their idea that He has been using them to 'conquer' people by means of their preaching work, separating them as sheep from the goats, but lately they have abandoned this teaching, acknowledging that the separation of sheep and goats is still future, as is the separation of wheat and weeds, which will be done by the angels upon Christ's future coming, the 'third coming,' by WT's counting, which is contrary to Scripture, to wit: 'And the second time that He appears, it will be . . . ' - hence, His 'second coming,' which term JWs hate with a vengeance as being a teaching of 'Christendom.' Heb 9:28 As to what the rider of the white horse might symbolize if not Jesus, the righteous king - well, what has been conquering western society today, and is yet to complete its agenda, if not the self-righteous, virtue signaling wokism that has overcome the masses? The magic potion - the 'shot' of the 'arrow' - that the self appointed guardians of political correctness have championed as their righteous cause of showing 'love to your neighbor,' has already slain and maimed millions of people - hand wringers, bed wetters and goody two shoes of the chattering classes, who fell over themselves to prove their credentials as those who keep everybody safe and protected - falling victim to, and being conquered by, their desire to out-Pharisee the Pharisees. Please suffer through the whole 12 minutes of this clip to get my point: https://www.bitchute.com/video/oXO1MizC7iYf Harry
This is what RK (erroneous-watchman) teaches too, that Jesus has a 3rd coming. He says Jesus comes at the beginning of the 42 months of the 8th king (2nd coming) and is here the whole 42 months but only with his chosen ones and then somehow Jesus comes again (3rd coming) at Armageddon at the end of the 42 months. He claims that that 2nd coming is Jesus' 'presence coming' and that that is separate from his 'Armageddon coming'. WTS: 1914-Jesus' 'presence coming'>>>>>>>end of GT>-Jesus' 'Armageddon coming'. RK: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus' 'presence coming' beginning of 42>>>end of 42 months>-Jesus' 'Armageddon coming'. He claims that Jesus' 'presence coming' is the same as his 'revelation coming'. He says that at the beginning of the 42 months is when Jesus comes to be glorified with is chosen ones. Example: [26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.] [7 ...at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels...10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith,..] I actually agree that those are the same comings. But the problem is that RK says that these are Jesus' so-called 'presence coming' and takes place at the beginning of the 42 months. I say that they are Jesus' 'Armageddon coming' and takes place after the 42 months, which I say is the GT time during the 8th king rule. Here is what the context of those Scripture show: [24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.] [7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.] Clearly this is Jesus' 'Armageddon coming', AFTER the 42 months/time of GT. This means that Jesus coming to be glorified with his holy ones does not take place like RK claims at the beginning of the 42 months. But because he is hell bent on teaching such a false notion that there is a so-called 'presence coming', before his 'Armageddon coming', he is willing to twist Scriptures and leave out context in order to make the Scriptures that he cites fit the BS that he is pushing. Look here at what he says/does: ______________ quote - [In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.” Elsewhere, namely in his letter to the Romans, the apostle referred to the revealing of the sons of God. Needless to say, the revealing of the sons of God will come about as a result of the revelation of Jesus to them. John, who was on the mountain when Christ was transfigured before them, wrote in his first epistle: “Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” – 1 John 3 verse 2 Considering the context of Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians concerning the parousia, Paul issued a warning regarding the operation of Satan as the source of authoritative pronouncements and apostolic-like letters declaring that the presence has begun and the Lord’s day is here. Then, the apostle prophesied and gave us a vital bit of information regarding a crucial development that must take place first before Christ appears. Again, what is that? Read it: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ.] - end quote _____________________________ So, all mention of revealing, presence, manifestation, revelation, is all what RK says is the so-called parousia coming of Jesus that takes place before his 'Armageddon coming'. But the context shows the true timing of Jesus' coming, is after the tribulation when he brings relief to those that were suffering under it and will bring everlasting destruction at that time on those who did not obey the good news, and this is said to be the time that he will be glorified in connection with his holy ones. So, to get around that RK just cites: [7 ...at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels...10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith,..] As in: quote - [In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.”] end quote Compare again context that he leaves out: [7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.] Anyone on his forum that believes the stuff RK teaches should honestly ask themselves if they really believe that the timing of this revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels that RK claims is a so-called parousia coming, do they really believe this occurs at the beginning of the 42 months. RK doesn't even believe it, he knows he is lying about it. That's why he takes the context out of the Scriptures and is why he banned me and deleted what I wrote in showing what he does. The post here that he banned me for and deleted what I said in order to hide it from others to read.
Yes, RK has some strange beliefs; he upbraids WT for their fake 1914 parousia date, which is fair enough, but then also faults them for proclaiming an invisible presence, where us spiritual commoners have to take their word for it, while he, unlike them, believes in a visible coming of Christ, except that it will also be invisible to everybody except him, so that, again, just like in WT's case, us peasants have to rely on his telling us that he just had a private audience with Jesus somewhere in the inner chambers, and this word from him is then the 'revealing of the sons of God' that all creation was eagerly waiting for - Christ's visibly invisible coming alongside those whom He expressly warned us against as being false anointed ones, lol. He outs himself as a false Christ, and none of his followers even blinks an eye, like when he just recently quoted that very Scripture, where people would run around claiming to have seen Christ, without them wondering - and actually asking him - how to be able to distinguish between those who actually have seen Him, and those who haven't - as if this even mattered in a ridiculous scenario like that. RK likes to use the term 'stealth coming of Christ,' as if He would return unnoticed, which is not what Jesus meant, but rather 'unannounced,' and hence, 'unexpected;' catching someone unprepared. Throughout the NT, Christians are told to, and portrayed as, eagerly and joyfully anticipating the return of Christ to receive their reward, faithfully enduring persecution right down to the end; but in RK's world, Jesus does not come to save His suffering brothers, but, to the contrary, to stand idly by and watch them getting wiped out by Satan's minions during the 42 month of the beast sharing world rulership with Christ's kingdom side by side, battling it out over the affections of mankind - what a blessed hope to look forward to, lol. But fortunately, He first shows Himself to them as real, so that only then can they proclaim, and bear witness about, Him to the world with full conviction - go figure how people throughout the past 2000 years have been able to preach as His witnesses without ever having seen Him, lol. Having just come out of three and a half years of the greatest tribulation ever to befall God's people, the anointed are then ushered into another 42 month of Satanic hell presided over by Christ's glorious kingdom presence in power, in order to all be killed by the beast, according to RK's interpretation, 'Jehovah's very own Watchman' to 'His spirit directed organization,' no less. Why would any Christian look eagerly forward to that? What sort of Savior is that? It looks like RK views Jesus as a 'harsh man.' That also raises the question as to how come that people other than the great crowd 'come out of the great tribulation' - namely, the chosen ones, when the account in Revelation makes no mention of them coming out of the great tribulation - only to face double jeopardy? What joy escaping the frying pan only to land in the fire? Reading RK's end times expectations, the demons must be tripping over themselves being the first one to privately give him a personal apparition of Christ, by 'coming alongside' him in some secret rendezvous, that will make him glow in the dark, lol - well, he sure is asking for it, so may his wish be granted; talk about 'misleading and being misled.' The 'they' here, are, 'all the tribes of the earth,' that are 'following the wild beast with admiration,' who will all be told one day by 'our Watchman' that Jesus has secretly arrived, and then they will all beat themselves in grief at hearing the sad news, lol. So, one day, out of the blue, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will fail to shine, but 8 billion people will behold the incandescently glowing Rrrrobert King, in top hat and white gloves, clapping his hands as he staunchly declares: The Gentile times have ended, God's kingdom is now here - where have I heard that before? To RK that is code for Jesus stealthily sneaking alongside him and his fellow chastised, once for all enlightened-but then deluded-and subsequently re-enlightened WT anointed ones in a private visitation, to then throw them to the wild beast for some more and worse tribulation, to the point of being wiped out altogether. Yes, Jesus will need His 'powerful angels' to gather the cowering chosen ones together, kicking and screaming, to feed them to the beast for 42 month; even the resurrected anointed ones from 'heaven's extremity' need to come down here and be martyred again to fulfill RK's predictions. lol To be like Him means to be immortal, just as Jesus is, which happens at their being 'caught away' into the sky at Christ's return on the clouds of Heaven in power and glory, visible to all the tribes of the earth, which is the true revealing of the sons of God before the whole world. RK can't see any of this, because he is under the spell of his idol the WT, proudly touting it as Jehovah's exclusive channel of communication, while hypocritically exempting himself from what that implies, namely, that he should repent from his apostasy from their teachings and divinely ordained authority structure, patiently waiting on Jehovah to correct things through Christ as Head of the Christian congregation, that he believes WT exclusively to represent. I have seen it again and again, Jehovah sending people to pull him up on his dissembling and false interpretations, but he only stiffens his neck and throws them out of his synagogue. There is a slow, slow train coming, up around the bend. Harry
Thanks for showing me that. There is ALOT of stuff to read on there, my goodness. And I thought I was confused on this forum, now I have to see what he says. I hope Jehovah opens my mind to the truth, because there is so many different perspectives it is hard to really figure out if they are accurate.
Yeah, so RK believes that the great tribulation is the sword stroke on the beast, which he thinks will be the now seemingly imminent third world war, or economic collapse of the system, followed by Christ's invisible return in form of a secret meet up with the anointed, who will then tell the world that they have seen Christ, only for them all to be killed after 42 month, which is of course nonsense, and goes against everything the Bible says about His return. For starters, the great tribulation lasts for 42 month, and begins with the disgusting thing standing in a holy place, 'Jerusalem,' meaning Christianity today, that will be trampled on, and replaced by, the revived beast, as all the earth follows it with admiration, and worships it and its image as the new global religion. Re 11:1-3; Mat 24:15; Re 13 Immediately after the great tribulation on Christianity, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the power of the heavens will be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in power and great glory, and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather His chosen ones together from the four winds, to be caught up into the clouds to join Jesus - but RK believes none of that, which is a huge red flag for someone calling himself 'Jehovah's Watchman,' and claiming to be anointed. Mat 24:29-31; 1 Thes 4:16,17 Jesus directly warned us about false anointed ones who will come, claiming to have seen Jesus in private in 'the inner chambers' or the remote 'wilderness,' just like RK maintains that Jesus' coming will only be in secret to the anointed, whereas Jesus said that His coming would be like lightning, from one end of heaven to the other, clearly seen by all mankind, to the point that will all beat themselves in grief at realizing their imminent destruction. Mat 24:23-28 Harry
So I tried to join there too but it says I need to wait for the approval of the admin. Joshua said there wasn't another site, but maybe he didn't understand what I was asking, anyways it seems there is alot of people of that site which kinda makes me nervous because there are a lot of apostates on these kind of websites. But as it stands, I am obviously searching for answers that the WT hasn't been able to answer and if these two websites don't have them I guess I keep looking.
I think Joshua meant that he had several sites before, but now only this one; as for apostates on RK's forum, no need to worry there, it is more of an echo chamber where he has replaced the GB, and they are all dancing around him instead of that other golden calf, lol; you know, Jehovah's people are famous for that sort of idolatry, just like their spiritual forefathers were of old. As long as you don't get too close to the truth there and rattle their cage, you should be fine. The main doctrine there is that WT is 'God's spirit directed organization,' but has the man of lawlessness in their midst, so that He has sent them 'strong delusions' to 'believe the lie,' which RK says is the 1914 presence, but which 'operation of error,' according to 2 Thes 2:10-12, is given to those that are 'perishing' for not believing the truth, which means, according to his interpretation, that all 8 million of God's exclusive people will go to Gehenna; but don't try to point that out to him, or you will be kicked off quick smart, as many already have been over the years; have fun. Harry