The Trick Turns On You​

Revelation 17:16 - Babylon the Great

"And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire."

Ezekiel 16:35b-37 - Jerusalem

“This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Because your lust has been poured out and your nakedness has been exposed during your prostitution with your lovers and all your detestable, disgusting idols to which you even sacrificed the blood of your sons,

therefore I am collecting together all the lovers you have given pleasure to, all those you loved together with all those you hated. I will collect them together against you from all around and expose your nakedness to them, and they will see you completely naked."

Side note: this is extremely interesting, the nations Jerusalem prostituted herself with turned on her - what nations? Egypt (USA?) / Assyria / and finally 'turning to the land of the merchants' (North) Chaldea - ring a bell from a prophetic standpoint?

Jeremiah 4:30b - Jerusalem

"For those lusting after you have rejected you; They are now seeking to take your life."

 

Your Father Was An Amorite And Your Mother Was A Hampster​

In the first section of Ezekiel 16 (you need to read this whole chapter honestly), Jehovah derides Jerusalem by saying her father was an Amorite and her mother a Hittite.

"Your origin and your birth were in the land of the Ca′naan·ite. Your father was an Am′or·ite, and your mother was a Hit′tite."

So why is this important?

Ancient Babylon (not Neo-Babylon, typified by Nebuchadnezzar), the city-state, was established by the Amorites, they were the dynasty to create 'Babylonia' in Southern Mesopotamia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon

The Amorite dynasty was overthrown by the Hittites.

 

The Mystery​

Revelation 17:7 - Babylon the Great

"So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns"

Where does one hide a great mystery? In a crag? Or in plain sight?

"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" Genesis 12:3

This verse changed history in ways we can't fathom, for two primary reasons:

1) Jehovah brought the messiah into the world through this great nation, and blessed all the peoples of the earth, exactly as the prophecy foretold

2) Christians believe this scripture applies to modern Israel, and therefore, are INCAPABLE of seeing the solution to the 'mystery' of the great harlot, who is apostate Israel

Similarly, Jehovah's Witnesses see no prophetic implication to the re-emergence of the state of Israel occupying ancient Jerusalem; they too are INCAPABLE of conceiving of the solution to this mystery.

 

Get Out of Her My People​

Revelation 18:4b - Babylon the Great

"Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."

There are three (or more?) 'people' this prophecy can apply to.

1. Christians

2. Israelites

3. Future servants of Jehovah (within the 'false religion' framework)

On the surface, it would appear that 'Christians' is the most satisfying answer to this quandary.

But in the light of prophecy, it would seem that 'Israelites' are the correct answer.

Why? In short, because Jehovah has stated that he will bring (a remnant of) natural Israel back into the fold, at a future time.

This can be seen in Romans 11:25-32:

For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes:

A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.

I won't quote the whole section, please see a previous post on this site where this is idea fully fleshed out, it is an important aside to this discussion:

http://e-jw.org/showthread.php?781-Natural-Israel-In-Prophecy&highlight=natural+israel

 

I think I'm done with the scriptural proofs. I have an idea for one more sub-heading (top ranking merchants of the earth), but I need to do some more research first.

Now we can get into the historical / religious / institutional component to this framework.

Here is what I'm thinking:

1. Jewish dominance in the arts / entertainment (spiritistic practices misleading the world)
2. Jewish dominance in mercantilism (top ranking men, the famed Rothschilds et al)
3. Nations bowing to and appeasing 1948's State of Israel (kingdom over the kings of the earth, also men like Henry Kissinger, and other notable Jewish influences)
4. Jerusalem as center stage in world politics (all roads lead to Jerusalem)
5. The Babylonian Talmud, Kabbalah, and the rejection of Christ (spiritism, anti-Christ, misleading 'wine' of fornication)

Sorry if some of these seem like stereotypes, my best friend growing up was Jewish, so trust me when I say this is wholly about trying to match the prophecy to the subject of the framework!!

[and sometimes (ok, most of the time) there is some truth in a stereotype]

(you can do whatever you want in this post)

But I ask that you keep it simple with one point per post, no walls of text (sorry, I'm dumb), easy to read/understand and a reason to believe the statement is true beyond opinion.

 

Yes, I agree with this criticism, I don't think it debunks the theory but it is something to be aware of - one of the most convincing components to this framework however is the language used to describe Jerusalem in Ezekiel/Jeremiah/Isaiah - it matches Revelation 17/18 quite well, similarly the depth of 'prostitution' and the cause/effect it brings on Jerusalem / BTG matches.

For example look how Jerusalem 'prostituted' itself to the nations, who then turn on her in Ezekiel 16 and Jeremiah 4 (notably, Egypt/Assyria/Chaldea). Exactly how the Wild Beast turns on BTG in Revelation 17.

The sheer number of scriptures correlating these two entities is astounding - whether the framework is correct or not.

It seems the attributes of BTG and Jerusalem match, there is no other entity with this level precision, but please correct me if this is wrong!

(perhaps the Catholic church, but you can't show that using the Bible ONLY, you can only infer and make historical references)

edit: "Each entity must be as it was in it's original fulfillment."

I'm not convinced of that rule necessarily, if that were the case, then it would be BTG that punishes the Israel of God (instead of the northerner).

In this framework apostate Jerusalem became exactly what Jehovah derided it for: an offspring of Amorites and Hittites (Babylon), through the Babylonian Talmud and Kabbalah.

So in the future fulfillment Jerusalem is the city-state riding on the back of the empire and influencing nations, the Assyrian (northerner) is the punishing agent of the Israel of God.

(or am I way off base here?)

 

Isn't the beast in Rev 13 an amalgamation of the previous empires, with various expressions over time (Dan 2 statue), the last of which are the feet of iron and clay.

That doesn't correlate to Rev 17, where the harlot is seen riding on top of the amalgamation. Or am I wrong?

You would need to show that the harlot is in reference to the amalgamation containing the 'lion'; which it seems is impossible since the harlot rides the 'lion' amalgamation.

The amalgamation turns on the woman riding it.

 

Would also like to add
1.5 Jewish dominance in the press of the world
1.6 Jewish dominance in the entertainment industry

 

Not necessarily, the woman is sitting on top of the seven headed beast, which as we know represent the world kingdoms who have ruled throughout the ages. Therefore, Babylon the Great, has ruled over the kings since the first head of that beast was in power. Babylon the Great is much more than just a nation.

Revelation 18:24 “24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.â€￾â€￾

The Holy See did not come to power until the end of the 4th century, and although it has caused many on earth to be slaughtered, it is a relative new comer compared Babylon, or many of the other pagan nations.

 

"They (Israel) have no prophetic significance at all in the time of the end."

What about Romans 11:26-32 and Zechariah 12?

These both clearly state a future submission to the Messiah with the Jewish people, during the time of the end.

“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and supplication, and they will look to the one whom they pierced, and they will wail over him as they would wail over an only son; and they will grieve bitterly over him as they would grieve over a firstborn son. 11 In that day the wailing in Jerusalem will be great, like the wailing at Ha·dad·rim′mon in the Plain of Me·gid′do"

How can that apply to Christianity in a spiritual sense?

And in Romans 11, Paul informs us of a 'sacred secret' regarding the temporary blindness of Israel, until the 'full measure of the nations is brought in'.

I think it's a mistake to read this in a pure spiritual sense.

So, does Jehovah still care about Israel? Of course! He is loyal, even though they are not, and (supposition here) will try to wake them up; because of his 'loyal love'. This is aside the point from their rejection of the messiah, as Romans 11 states.

But they have been taken over by the Babylonian mystics through the Kabbalah and the Babylonian Talmud!

The Catholic Church doesn't fit the prophecy of BTG with the same precision as Jerusalem, in my opinion. I don't think it's a 'trinity fallacy' to correlate these descriptions of Jerusalem and BTG, simply because they fit extremely well ... it's not a leap in logic like the trinity argument.

(I've tried to make it work, believe me)

Does Jehovah care who runs a TV station (et al), of course not!

But that isn't the subject of the discussion; rather, the influence BTG has had on the world through it's spiritistic practices.

(entertainment, economics, influence of nations, 'top ranking merchants of the earth')

 

"get out of her my people"

Within this framework, I would suggest that Romans 11:26-32 and Zechariah 12 will be fulfilled when the 'call goes out' to flee Babylon, which is apostate Babylonian Talmudic Jerusalem.

Then the whole world will turn on Israel; the Evangelicals will finally realize that 'blessing' Israel was meaningless, because they were no longer Jehovah's covenanted people, as one obvious example.

 

How do you mean? (but no, certainly not! let me know where you got that from and I'll try to explain)

 

Nah, that is a stretch

Was Jehovah being racist when he instructed Joshua to cleanse the land?

No, of course not; those people took on certain attributes that caused his judgment to come against them.

Same idea here.

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting that Jehovah puts a call out to 'his people' to flee from the institution of Babylon the Great, which in this framework, is the State of Israel as influenced by the Kabbalah, Babylonian Talmud and prominence in the financial world (top ranking merchants).

Not a race, but a national group / institution / theological grouping, which happens to also be a race.

This fulfills three prophecies, Romans 11 (Jehovah saves his first covenanted people, after the nations come into the fold), Zechariah 12 (the 'house of David' realizes they killed the messiah), and Revelation 17 (some of 'his people' have an opportunity to flee from the institution of BTG, and the literal city of Jerusalem / State of Israel, and become followers of the messiah).

I think it would be helpful to look at some of the scriptural connections, and deal with those; since the evidence is not simply a word game, but literally attribute for attribute between Babylonian Talmudic Judaism and BTG.

So why not the Catholic church? How obvious it is - this framework was written about in the 1400's, and widely accepted by protestants today.

I've tried to fit the pieces together, but Utuna made some good points that got me thinking, in the other thread about this.

Parts seem to fit, but the solution lies outside of the Bible in supposition and historical analysis; this framework's solution lies inside the Bible, for the most part, coupled with a study of history.

 

To show you what I mean, in the Bible:

BTG = guilty for blood of prophets, and all those slain on earth
Jerusalem = guilty for blood of prophets, and all those slain on earth

To suggest the Holy See is responsible for this, we can only postulate that they took this guilt on themselves by persecuting Christians from ~400 - 1500; meanwhile, Jerusalem is literally given this attribute by scripture.

---- what about outside of the Bible? ----

For instance, BTG's 'top ranking men' being the foremost merchants on the earth.

Can this apply to the Holy See?

I don't think so, but I'm open to ideas.

Meanwhile, most conspiracy revolves around a Jewish run elite banking sector controlling economies of the world.

(Jews have been targeted by governments, whether they are right or wrong in their assessment, for 100's of years because of this charge)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

I really don't want to have to make this argument, it actually pains me! I hate the anti-Jew crowd with a passion.

It just seems to fit.