I guess I missed this post Cristo, I apologies for my late response.

The head wound in Rev 13 was the blow the king of the North took centered in Britain after the second world war. The second beast in Rev 13 ascending out of the earth comes from that death blow to the head of the North, and that is Anglo-America. If it weren't for the Anglo-American loan of 1946 Britain would not have survived. The fire coming down from the sky in front of the beast were the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan. The image set up by the Anglo-American beast is the actual buildings in New York that house the UN. The first beast in Rev 13 from the sea is the UN.

Daniel 8 describes the first world war, and the small horn in both Dan 7 & 8 is the UN. The three horns that fell from before it were Germany, Japan and Italy, each one being previous members of a whole, known as the League of Nations.

The beast from the sea in Rev 13 came about in 1945, Anglo-America was established in 1946 and the image of the beast was built in 1948. What we are waiting for now is this beast to come out of the abyss in Rev 17, but in order for it to do so, something much more dramatic then a death stroke that healed in Rev 13. In fact what brings the scarlet beast and 8th king from the abyss is what is described here: “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire." (Dan 7:11) This describes the moment the south is destroyed in the final battle between north and south. This is Anglo-America going down for good. That is the moment the 8th king is set up.

I could go on and on of course, but keep in mind what I have said many times Cristo, until you know what event comes before or after another you can never know what each event entails.

 

I normally post with scriptural facts and no one responds, I tried to bring it down to simple explanations here, so if you don't want the facts in simple form, then here you go, the way I would normally respond. Respond to the facts. Your wrong about close to the societies understanding, surely your aware of "Revelation it's Grand Climax" and "Daniel". I'm sure you read them, right?

I'm not speculating on anything. This isn't my understanding it's Jehovah's:

Babylon The Great's identity:

The first four beasts of Dan 7 correlate with two different time periods. Number one in that of the immense image of Nebuchadnezzar's dream representing Babylon/Medo-Persia/Greece/Rome. (Dan 2:31) The other of current world powers and entities today. We understand the fourth beast of Nebuchadnezzar's dream to represent Rome and presented as the 6th king of Rev 17:10 that existed at the time of its writing, and through history that 6th king progresses into an Anglo-American world power making up the seventh kingdom. This seventh kingdom is represented in that fourth "fearsome" beast of Dan 7 along with it's ten horns.

Now the battle between North and South rages on for millenia and we can trace their actions through Dan 11 all the way down to our day. As we pick up their history just before the second world war we see them both joined together in a union in that of the Anglo-American dual power in that fourth beast of Dan 7. One being the oligarchical rule behind the scene centered in London and the South represented by the democratic form of government. No better example then that of the British government with a queen behind the scene but a democratic front. We also know that the three beasts of Dan 7 also are representative of world powers today because we see them combined in that beast out of the sea in Rev 13. Notice that the fourth beast is not pictured in that combined beast, and as well only seven heads.

Now, there is a small horn seen coming from the fourth beast of Dan 7. There's no doubt this horn is the UN. Without getting to much into why, briefly the UN is the catalyst for the king of the North to establish a NWO. The beast itself had already contained ten horns itself and well represented this Anglo-American conglomeration and as well the ten horns in the form of the League of Nations. Now when this small horn came to be in the late stages of the second world war the three horns that fell from before it were Germany/Japan/Italy each being one of the "first" or founding members of that League.

Now, the death stroke to the seventh head of the first beast in Rev 13 is the blow the North took in the second world war and the oligarchy rule. If it were not for the Anglo-American loan to the British that 7th head would not have survived after the second world war. Again that first beast in Rev 13 has seven heads, not eight. It comes from the sea, not the abyss. The eighth king comes from the abyss. Now let's look at that event.

In the time of the end the king of the North will come against the king of the south. (Dan 11:40) The result of that will be the destruction of that 7th king and the fourth beast of Dan 7; “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire." (Dan 7:11) That fourth beast is killed, body destroyed and given to the burning fire. There is no coming back from that, that's the second death. Now the horn is well alive when this happens because it's speaking grandiose words before the beast is killed, therefore there is no way that the eighth king comes about after the fall of the Anglo-American system of things because that small horn exists well before the beast from which it comes from is killed. In fact in verse twelve we see that this beast, and the seventh king of Rev 17 is killed only 450 days before the end of all nations on earth completely. Then out of that death of the 7th king comes the 8th king from out of the abyss in Rev 17! The two beasts of Rev 13 and the beast in Rev 17 are all obviously separate entities coming from different sources in that of the sea, earth and abyss and can be explained through chronology. If there is a single paradox in chronology then the understanding is incorrect.

The second beast of Rev 13 is the missing beast from Dan 7. It is that Anglo-American dual power. It is the result of that death stroke to the first beast and brings to life that American, British conglomerate which then brings forth fire from heaven in the sight of the UN when it drops two atomic weapons on Japan ending the second world war. (Rev 13:13) It creates an image of the first beast, in that of the actual location of the UN in New York, for before that the UN had no actual visual location. Financed of course by the North and those elitist looking forward to their NWO and the end of the democratic rule.

Okay, now let's address Dan 8;

The great battle between the ram and the he-goat. What we are going to determine here is does this vision have a modern day fulfillment? Let's look;

"And he proceeded to say to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of [the] end." (Dan 8:17b)

So the visions in the 8th chapter pertain to the time of the end according to verse 17. So without a doubt the vision of the ram and he-goat carry a dual prophecy in that of their original completion in that war between Medo-Persia and that of Greece however, just as the angel Gabriel tells Daniel, this vision is also meant for the "time of the end". In what way and how are we to determine how this vision gives us information of the time of the end? Let's look;

In our studies into Dan 7 we come to realize that the second chapter of Daniel and it's immense image becomes a map in understanding the beasts in chapter 7. We have a clear understanding of who the first beast in that of the lion represents, and as well that fourth beast, but how about the other two? Well Dan 8 will help us with that. Using our immense image in chapter 2 as a ruler we can determine who this ram and he-goat is representative of in the time of the end.

“The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me′di·a and Persia." (Dan 8:20)

"And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece;" (Dan 8:21)

“And after you there will rise another kingdom inferior to you; and another kingdom, a third one, of copper, that will rule over the whole earth.." (Dan 2:39)

"And, see there! another beast, a second one, it being like a bear. And on one side it was raised up, and there were three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and this is what they were saying to it, ‘Get up, eat much flesh.’" (Dan 7:5)

“After this I kept on beholding, and, see there! another [beast],one like a leopard, but it had four wings of a flying creature on its back. And the beast had four heads, and there was given to it rulership indeed." (Dan 7:6)

So there we have it, we understand that the ram represents the second beast of Dan 7 and that of the bear, and the he-goat represents the third of the leopard. Briefly what we are about to show moving on here is that in fact the 8th chapter of Daniel is describing the first world war and that of the League of Nations. Let's get right into it;

This battle is that of the age old battle between North and South. Chapter 11 of Dan is really a complete history of these battles. So let's pull from it this battle between the ram and he-goat;

“And he will arouse his power and his heart against the king of the south with a great military force; and the king of the south, for his part, will excite himself for the war with an exceedingly great and mighty military force. And he will not stand, because they will scheme out against him schemes. And the very ones eating his delicacies will bring his breakdown.“And as for his military force, it will be flooded away, and many will certainly fall down slain. “And as regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to doing what is bad, and at one table a lie is what they will keep speaking. But nothing will succeed, because [the] end is yet for the time appointed. “And he will go back to his land with a great amount of goods, and his heart will be against the holy covenant. And he will act effectively and certainly go back to his land." (Dan 11:25-28)

Now as to these two kings identities in the time of the end;

"When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. And the two horns were tall, but the one was taller than the other, and the taller was the one that came up afterward. I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts kept standing before it, and there was no one doing any delivering out of its hand. And it did according to its will, and it put on great airs." (Dan 8:3,4)

Now who in the first world war represents these two horns? None other then the German-Austria/Hungary Central Powers and that of the North. The second being taller that came after was of course Germany being just a few years younger then its partner. Now quickly on to that he-goat;

"And I, for my part, kept on considering, and, look! there was a male of the goats coming from the sunset upon the surface of the whole earth, and it was not touching the earth. And as regards the he-goat, there was a conspicuous horn between its eyes." (Dan 8:5)

Here we have the Allies in that of the South, the French, Brits, Russia. That not touching the earth? No doubt the first use of airplanes in warfare!

Now, how do we know that this vision is meant to represent WWI in the common era? Well let's take a look. Seen between its eyes is a conspicuous horn, not one understanding ambiguous sayings but conspicuous. In fact we know this horn is before the small horn that comes from the fourth beast of Dan 7 for look;

"And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens." (Dan 8:8)

That horn was broken as soon as it became mighty and there proceeded to come up four instead of it toward the four winds! Remember Dan 7 and those four beasts from the four winds? Yep!

“I happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others." (Dan 7:2)

So we are made to understand that the 7th chapter of Dan in chronology actually comes after chapter 8! That horn that was between the eyes of the he-goat was the conglomeration of the king of the south in the Allie powers that defeat the ram in that of the Central Powers. But once that occurs the horn is broken and the four beasts come from the four winds in Daniel 7, it is not till then that a small horn is seen coming from one of those four. Look here;

"And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one, and it kept getting very much greater toward the south and toward the sunrising and toward the Decoration." (Dan 8:9)

"I kept on considering the horns, and, look! another horn, a small one," (Dan 7:8)

These two horns are of course the same entity because we know both are said coming against gods people and removing the constant feature.

So according to scripture who can we determine is to be represented by the bear and leopard of Dan 7? The allies being that of the leopard and it's four heads and wings and the Axis being that of the bear coming into WWII. Those three ribs in the mouth of the bear? They are the king of the North and those three Axis members of Germany/Italy/Japan. Those are the very three horns that fall before the small horn that comes up from the fourth beast. Those three horns originally being part of that conspicuous horn in Chapter 8, or first king!

Babylon and the lion? Oh, Babylon The Great is most definitely alive today, the Holy See...

 

I suggest reading Dan 8 first, then Dan 7, then on to rev 13. Watch the small horn and when it comes "to be" in both the 8th and 7th chapters of Daniel. Remember the small horn is a separate entity then the conspicuous horn, and comes after it. Also keep in mind that the four beasts in Dan 7 are the same as the immense image in Dan 2, the head of gold equals the lion. As well keep in mind that the battle in chapter 8 is one of the battles between the north and south. Read those two chapters and understand the chronology first, then you can understand the entities once you realize the immense image in Dan 2 is the map to understand Dan 7. The first beast of Rev 13 is that small horn and the second beast is the beast that horn comes from in Dan 7.

 

Also SingleCell, when I mention Dan chapter 8 as it pertains to Dan 7, I'm only speaking of Dan 8:1-12.

 

[video=youtube;0Wi8Fv0AJA4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wi8Fv0AJA4[/video]

 

Yes, very good...

Your just missing the event that precedes this at Dan 7:11: “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire."

The fourth beast is killed and utterly destroyed, and it's upon this event that the other beasts rulerships were taken away and their lives prolonged. This is the final battle between North and South. This is the moment Anglo-America goes down and the Eighth king is set up. The small horn exists and comes from the fourth beast, and as it's speaking the beast it comes from is killed. It is at that moment that horn becomes the eighth king when all the other nations give their sovereignty to it. Then Jesus is seen given kingship in the following verses.

Dan 11:40: “In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood."

Rev 16:10: "The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened, and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain,"

Rev 17:12: “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast."

The North being Oligarchy rule and the south being Democratic. Keep in mind Rev 13 shows the fourth beast still alive as the beast with two horns. It is seen setting up that small horn, so therefore the death stroke to one of the heads could not be Anglo-America going down. The chronology makes it impossible. Besides, Dan 7 says the fourth beast is completely destroyed, second death, so therefore there is no healing from that.

I could go on about Rev, but not sure where you would like to continue...

Again, they will give their rullerships to the Eighth king when it is set up.

Yes, these beasts in Dan 7 still exist today. They haven't taken on new forms, they have simply continued to exist on down through history. Albeit in ideology rather then name.

Fourth beast = (Rome/Anglo-America) Robert has done a lot of work on this subject. In short Britain was a Roman province.

Ten horns = (Ten non-members of the United Nations) = Rev 17:12: “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast."

Little Horn = (United Nations)

This is the only way the entire chronology of scripture works. Trust me, I've thought about every scenario possible. As well, if you've done any research on, Bilderberg, CFR, Rothchild's, Bush senior's NWO, Clinton's CFR connections etc, etc.., you would know that the UN was created to become a one world government, and Republican and Democrat alike are just waiting for the moment they can hand over the sovereignty of the US to it.

 

The death stroke to the head in Rev 13 was the Blow the fourth beast of Dan 7 and legs of Dan 2 received during the second world war. That entity was Britain. If it were not for the Anglo-American loan, Britain would have gone under after WWII. Out of that loan in 1946 Anglo-America was born. The second beast of Rev 13 is Anglo-America, it's created out of the death stroke to the first beast. That death stroke to the "seventh king/Britain" healed forming Anglo-America. That's why the beast is seen coming from the sea in Rev 13, not the abyss as the beast in Rev 17 is seen. Because these are separate events. When the fourth beast is killed by fire/second death in Dan 7:11, then the Eighth king of Rev 17 will be set up. There is no returning from Dan 7:11, it describes utter destruction for the fourth beast, the South, and Democratic rule.

Indeed the setting up of the Eighth king is future, but keep in mind the little horn is seen alive and speaking before the beast it comes from is killed, and before it is seen becoming the Eighth king. “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire." (Dan 7:11)

 

The next few scriptures I posted below pertain to the time when the small horn comes against the holy ones and remove the constant feature. This time period of course is 1260 days however, this time has not come yet and isn't even the next event in chronology to occur.

Dan 7:25; "He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

Dan 8:9-12; "Out of one of them came another horn, a small one, and it grew very great toward the south and toward the east and toward the Decoration. It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."

Dan 11:30; “He will go back and hurl denunciationsagainst the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant. And armswill stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature."

Dan 12:7b; “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.â€

Rev 11:2; "But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy cityunderfoot for 42 months."

Rev 12:14; "But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a timeaway from the face of the serpent."

In the following scripture I will map out exactly where we are in the stream of time. Red will represent events that have occurred, and blue events that have yet to occur.

Dan 11:29-31; “At the time appointed he will return and come against the south. But this time will not be as it was before, for the ships of Kit′timwill come against him, and he will be humbled. (<~ Second world war) “He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenantand act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant. And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature." (<~Future)

Now, as for the as for the judgement on the house of God.

2Th 2:3; "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessnessgets revealed, the son of destruction."

The "it" that is referred to is the "day of Jehovah". This has nothing to do with the fall nor rise of any nations throughout scriptural chronology. It simply means what it says. Now with that in mind 2Th is a complex chapter and in fact includes information I almost commented on in another thread you created about when Satan was ousted. There is no connection with the battle in heaven with the death blow in Rev 13, nor beast being destroyed in Dan 7. There just is no connection, so having the idea that they correlate is a dead end. 2Th on the other hand does provide that information however.

Reading through this chapter it can be very difficult to determine what the thing is that acts as a restraint, and as well who the MOL is. Jehovah's word, it as always explains itself.

Let's start with verses 1 and 2 where we are admonished not to give credence to the idea that Jehovah's day had arrived, such as in inspired expressions, letters, verbal messages.

"However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of ​YOU not to be quickly shaken from ​YOUR​ reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here." (2Th 2:1,2)

Sound familiar? Is this not just what the WTS has been teaching for coming on to 100 years now? Let's read what the bible writer told us to watch out for when this time actually would be upon us.

"Let no one seduce ​YOU​ in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction." (2Th 2:3)

So the day of Jehovah would not begin until first the apostasy comes and then the MOL is revealed. Anyone here familiar with any apostasy in the WTS's recent past? I'm sure you are. Now what of this MOL?

"He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god†or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god." (2Th 2:4)

Now there is an ongoing theory that this MOL could have occured all those years ago back when false teaching would have begun to creep in the early Christian church. We will now show how that theory is impossible and as well show in this chapter where it actually discusses that very issue of false teachings creeping into the early church.

Number one, we should keep in mind that the 4th verse here says he sits in the temple of "The God". Yes, this MOL does come from within Jehovah's true temple, just as Judas was a close associate of Jesus and had betrayed him.

Now let's look at the key to understand this entire sequence, and that is the "restraint"!

"And so now ​YOU​ know the thing that acts as a restraint, with a view to his being revealed in his own due time." (2Th 2:6)

This scripture says, "now you know the thing that acts as a restraint." Sure previously in this chapter this thing that acts as a restraint is touched on, but as of yet does not give us a clearer picture until we read on of what this restraint is, so let's read verse 7.

"True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way." (2Th 2:7)

So we see that at the time this verse was penned the thing that acts as a restraint already existed 2000 years ago. As well notice that this time the verse calls the restraint a "he". Now obviously the "mystery" is that which the restraint brings in, those false teachings infiltrating the early Christian churches. Who is that one who acts as a restraint and brings in those false teachings into the early churches? None other the Satan himself! We will see why this is so in a bit.

Now, how do we know the MOL cannot have been revealed in any other time but the future? Because sense Satan is that restraint, his being out the way is his ouster from Heaven! It's not until Satan is casted out of heaven is the MOL revealed. We will look further into this in a bit as well, but let's read on in 2Th.

"Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence." (2Th 2:8)

Now look at the next verse;

"But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents." (2Th 2:9)

The operation of Satan is the restraint that backs the lawless one and brings in the apostasy. Now we see the culmination of the 8 verses before it. We have explained here what the restraint is that is behind the lawlessness, and of course it is Satan. That mystery of the lawlessness that had begun to enter the early church those 2000 years ago was the lying signs and portents such as those saying, "The day of Jehovah is here." when in fact Satan was still acting as a restraint and the MOL had not yet been revealed. Remember verse 7? The restraint was acting in place then in the early church, so the bible writer knew he was talking about a future MOL because he says "True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work." so he knew there was a future lawlessness that would culminate into the restraint being removed and then MOL being revealed only after Satan's ouster in the future.

"and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved." (2Th 2:10)

Now look at the next verse;

"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2Th 2:11)

Here we have it, we now understand what the operation of error is. "The day of Jehovah is here". That's what the operation of error is, and is this not what the society has been saying now for 100 years? The problem with that is just as in the early church the one acting as a restraint, "Satan" has not yet been hurled from heaven, and as well the MOL has not been revealed. So therefore the day of Jehovah and the beginning of the end has not begun!

It had been a bit of a mystery in chronology exactly when Satan was ousted from heaven. Some tried to tie it to the destruction of the wild beast and fall of the king of the south, but all these ideas were guesses, and now we have it, Rev chapter 12 is chronologically sound from it's description of the very first prophecy in the bible to events just before the flood, on to Jesus faithful course on earth and on down to the end when Jehovah's true temple is trampled on by the nations. The very first occurrence before the MOL is revealed and the end begins is war between Michael and his angles and Satan and his angels when the later are hurled to the earth! Then the MOL is revealed within the temple of "The God" at the first trumpet and that future faithful Rosh Hashana. Jewish-Holidays-Fullfilled

Your brother...