I never said the immense image had four heads. Again, not sure where you read that. The bear, lion, leopard in Rev 13 are mentioned separate then the 7 heads of Rev 13. It's the second beast in Rev 13 with the two horns that is the missing beast in Dan 2, 7, it's the fearst beast. The bear, lion, leopard and second beast of Rev 13 represent that image in Dan 2 as a whole and the beasts in Dan 7, and the seven heads of the beast in Rev 13 represent all the ruling powers over Gods people through history... This is the reason they are mentioned separately because the image in Dan 2 does not include all the ruling powers, so Rev 13 has to put them in, in order to include them all.

It's okay brother, I understand your confusion...

Just to be sure, you understand that it's the parts of the beasts mentioned in Rev 13 that represent the immense image of Dan 2? The seven heads are meant to represent the ruling powers over the years, and the ten horns are the non-members current of the UN that lose their diadems once the UN becomes the Eighth king. See you have it backwards, they currently have their diadems now, but lose them to the 8th king, not the other way around.

Dan 7:12 "But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season."

 

What I meant was I see no problem with the beast in Rev 13 having 7 heads while the image in Dan 2 has only four beasts. I meant "while the image has four beasts." My argument was the fact that the beast in Rev 13 having seven heads has nothing to do with the fact that the image has four "BEASTS". Do you really think I thought the image has four heads? It had one head of gold... Obviously there was a mistaken of understanding, I must not have worded it correctly. Yet it could be said there are four heads in Dan 7 and these represent the image in Dan 2, but that's not important.

This is a really easy concept to imagine. These ten members rule over their own countries. Think about it, why would their diadems be for being non-member of the UN, your right they have no real authority. Their diadems are for their rullerships of their own countries. They lose their authority (diadems) of their own countries to the UN when it becomes the Eighth king and they become permanent members.

Again let me quote Dan "I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away,"

Do you really not know why the 7 heads are mentioned separate from the beasts of Dan? Why isn't the fourth beast mentioned in the first beast of Rev 13? Why are the beasts mentioned at all, if the seven heads are.

Frank, the reason the image of Dan 2 is there, the beasts in Rev 7 are their, and they show up again in Rev is so we can track these entities over time.

Why isn't the fourth beast mentioned in the first beast of Rev 13?

You think the 7th king will go down first, you think there will be a WWIII before Watchtower goes down... I happen to think that isn't the case, and we will see the MOL come out into the public first, then years later the Watchtower will go down, then years after that the 7th king will go down and the Eighth king will rise, then after that Jesus is enthroned. The great tribulation will only be 40 days long, and the WWIII will only start 75 days before the first day of the new world...

The last hour the ten horns rule with the Eighth king is 450 days... Can I be any more exact then that?

I bet this doesn't fit your chronology, does it?

 

I have never considered this discussion a battle, or fight. A debate perhaps, but it has seemed more one sided since you havn't answered one questioned I've proposed to you any any of my posts...

The beasts in Dan 7 mirror those in Dan 2, so therefore it represents four. Dan 2 and 7 use Rome and then Rome/Anglo-America as one beast. The iron of the legs continues on until the end even after it it get's mixed with clay. Yes Anglo-America is represented in the feet and toes, but Dan 7 does not separate the beasts, Dan 7 shows the legs and feet as one beast all the way down to the end. It's because they both exist to the end together.

 

Tell me this Frank, doesn't it strike you as interesting that when Dan 7:12 says the rest of the beasts rulerships were taken away, the other beasts in Dan 7 had long been gone? The lion representing the head of the image in Dan 2/Babylon was long gone, so what other beasts is this scripture talking about?

Horns are however spoken of as kingdoms, and of course kingdoms are spoken of as beasts...

Not according to me, but according to Dan 7:24 those ten horns are kingdoms.

Dan 7:24 "As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings."

Kings=Kingdoms

 

Dan 8:22 "As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power."

Literal translation of Dan 8:22;

וְהַנִּשְׁבֶּרֶת--וַתַּעֲמֹדְנָה אַרְבַּע, תַּחְתֶּיהָ: אַרְבַּע מַלְכֻיוֹת מִגּוֹי יַעֲמֹדְנָה, וְלֹא בְכֹחוֹ.

"And as for that which was broken, in the place whereof four stood up, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not with his power."

Dan 8:22 tells you that the horns are nations and kingdoms not individuals.

Nation means kingdom, they are the exact same thing. It doesn't matter, the scripture still means the word "nation" means "kingdom". Regardless of who runs each power, scripture does not represent individuals as horns/beasts, but only the kingdom itself. The horn or nation does not represent Alexander, the interpretation and mention of horns and nation is representative of the kingdom itself.

As for the "beast being the goat" as you said, I don't understand what your saying, what beast?

 

It's very simple, Dan 7 is the map to understand Dan 2, they are both interconnected and represent each other.

Head of gold / Babylon / Lion

Silver / Media/Persia / Bear

Copper / Greece / Leopard

Iron&Clay / Fourth beast / Rome&Anglo-America

 

Now your just trying to overcome a mistake you made, but I didn't miss it or forget it. I was answering your statement to the fact that Daniel in 7 said the rest of the beast lost their rulerships, you claimed that scripture was speaking of the other beasts listed in Dan 7, however I pointed out those other beasts were no longer in existence by the time the fourth beast was around.

You are also mistaken as to what your reading from me. You might slow down a little further. I believe everything in Dan 2, 7, 8 all have it's original fulfillment and another in the time of the end, and if you've read anything I've written on it you would know that.

Obviously... (Yawn)

You've almost got it here, but your just off a couple of scriptures. It's Dan 11:12 when the Eighth king takes over; I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season. The second fulfillment of the horn the three fell before occurred during WWII... The first conspicuous horn was the league of nations and the three that fell were Germany, Japan, Italy. Out of that came the small horn, the UN/the first beast in Rev 13.

The three have already fallen and the small horn exists already. The horn is speaking when the fourth beast/Rome/Anglo-America goes down, which means the UN exists before becoming the Eighth king, just like Rev says...

Hmm, so the rest of the beasts die with the fourth beast huh?

"But as for the rest of the beasts,their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season."

 

If you think the Roman empire fell in the 5th century, you don't have a clue as to how the world works. But that's not your fault. You have been lied to. We all were.

Ask yourself, what determines the political identity of one state vs. another? well, It's laws of course. The only thing that changes at a border crossing between nations is the philosophical concept of law and authority. The land itself remains the relatively the same, It is only the beliefs in mens minds that makes it different.

So...if countries are "independent" then when did your legislature independently pass the law of say "Habeas Corpus" for example? It didn't. It inherited it from a more supreme authority. The very fact that it is in latin should give you a clue...we all live under Roman rule.

What you think are your national laws are no more than local ordinances governed under a higher rule. What you think is your nation or country is merely a province of an empire that never fell. They just didn't tell you that in school.

Rome began on the 21st of April 753 B.C., and has been going strong for nearly 28 centuries. Rome started When two tribes, the romas and the sabines, agreed to become one nation under a single authority. e pluribus unum...out of many, one.

At first the tribe of king Romulus had lived on one of the 7 hills of rome (Palatine Hill) and the sabines under king Titus Tatius on another (quirinal hill). After the union of the two tribes, the people of rome then became known as the Curites (from Quirinal), but the state itself was known as Rome (from king Romulus). The New kingdom was governed from a third hill located between the former tribes hills, called capitoline hill, or "capitol hill". The first king of rome appointed 100 elders or Seniors to advise him from among the people. These 100 "Seniors" became known as the "Senate". The people, or curites, also had an assembly, known as the "Comitia Curiata" or "Committee of the Curites (Roman People)" that acted as a house of representatives. (Remember, this all began in 753 B.C.)

Rome began to Conquer, or rather "Con-Quir" the tribes around them. (that is to say, bring their peoples into the realm of the Quirites by force). The ruler of these roman provinces was known as the Pro-Cur-ator, the most famous of these procurators is Pontious Pilate. The place from which the Curites/Procurators judged and ruled over the con-quered became known as the "Courts" derived from the term "Curite".

Curite itself comes from two words, "Co" and "Vir" meaning community of men. Today the concept survives in terms such as "My fellow Americans" or the name "Phila-delphia" meaning "brotherly love". Essentually if you were a citizen of rome you were considered a man and a brother, in a state of fidelity (love, friendship). These were called "Freemen". The word "free" comes from "Prijos" meaning "beloved".

If you werent in a state of fidelity ("beloved") then you were considered to be an "infidel" or hated and deemed to be as an enemy. Accordingly, all who were deemed enemies could be rightfully "Con-quired" by the curites as infedels. (you've no doubt heard of the "crusades" or spanish "conquistadores") These conquered people were then kept as prisoners of war, or "Slaves". The entire roman state was made up of "slaves" and "freemen".

When a freeman sold a slave, they would do so in a transaction called "Mancipatio", where a slave owner would place a piece of bronze on a "libripens" or scales (as in Libra) and then give the bronze piece to the new owner in front of witnesses. When a slave gains freeman status, it is called "Emancipatio" or emancipation. The slave then gains equality upon the scales of justice, called libertatem, or "Liberty". The romans also created gods and goddesses out of stone and told stories about them after about their powers and character as a way of instilling the "authority" of an abstract concept over the minds of the illiterate masses.

These stone images of gods were called "Statues". One such "statue" was that of the Goddess Libertas placed on Aventine hill. These statues of the gods ruled over the minds of men. Today laws are codified in "Statutes".

The statue of liberty is the largest in the world. In ancient rome, slaves from other countries could gain refuge if they ran away and made it to the city of rome and "stood under" the statue of the god Asylaeus on capitoline hill. When they "Understood" the statue "Asylaeus" they were given "asylum" but were now under roman authority.

Rome conquered the known world by force or by treaty. Those provinces that were aquired by force were known as the "dediticii" meaning "capitulants" and they had to pay "tribute" as a conquered "tribe". Those that joined rome by treaty were called "Civitates." Civitates didn't have to pay tribute, but they did have to serve and perform certiain responibilities, or "community services" called "Munera".

The process of making the known world into Civitates was called "Civilization". The "Civic Duty" of the Civitates was to perform the Munera under the authority of Rome. The corporate entities that performed these duties were called Civis, or "Cities". A city under the obligation of "Munera" is called a "Municipality".

The Roman Historian Tacitus said this of the Civitates:
"They spoke of such novelties as 'civilisation', when this was really only a feature of their slavery"

When rome conqueres an area, they would establish a military outpost called a "Colonia". They area they conquered was said to become "Colonized" into a colony.

As the conquered peoples of an area were placed in bondage, they were said to be under the weight of roman authority. The roman standard unit of weight was a libra (pound) derived from the name of a roman scale. Today we still abbreviate pounds as Lbs. (Libras). When one side of a scale is weighted down, the other side is lifted up. This was considered a transfer of power. The side that was conquered was under "Imperialism" meaning "power flowing out of". The side that the "power flowed into" was known as the "Emperor". The flow of this power was conducted through commerce and tribute. It was steered like a river flowing between two riverbanks. The process of steering this flow of commerce was called "Banking".

Later caesar as emperor was deified as a god, and his face was placed upon all coins as a graven image to perpetuate control over the minds of the masses through the system of idolotry, what began as a standard unit of measurement on a scale for free and honest trade became a system of control through idolism. Today we call this "Money". The love, or "worship" of these graven images is described in the bible as "the root of all evil".

Rome expanded the ancient roman religion and forced it upon all the peoples it conquered. Practicing a religion not allowed by the state was punishable by death, which was why the early christians were thrown to the lions, and continued on into the inquisition. The roman religion dates all the way back to the founding of rome.

After Romulus the first king of Rome died, The second king named Numia Pompilius created a high priesthood for the Roman religion and also an assembly of lesser priests called the "collegium" or "College" of cardinals/pontiffs. The High priest was called the "Pontifex Maximus" which began in the 8th century before christ and has never gone vacant. Today the legal holder of the title to pontifex maximus is the pope, who is still head of the roman catholic (universal) religion to this day.

If you think any of this went away simply because countries changed names or kings over time, you are wrong. The same system, the same structures and methods are still being perpetuated and have become almost completey universal across the earth. They just don't show you whos at the top of the pyramid thats all.