The United Nations is NOT the 8th king...again.

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Cristo, Jun 25, 2014.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yea, because they gave them over to the Eighth king when it comes to power... That's why their LIVES continue though........

    That is the moment the Eighth king takes over!
     
  2. Hi Joshua:

    It's clear to me that you can make both history and the Bible mean anything that you want. I will not stop you in your folly. I wish you well, my brother, but do not wish to "piss up a rope" any longer, I am just getting wet. May Jehovah bless you in all you do,

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    This is the third time I've answered this question for you, and yet you ask it again... So here I answer again.

    The reason the first beast in Rev 13 separates the 7 heads from the three beasts as part of it, them being the bear, lion, leopard, is because it allows us to track their identity through the ages. It also allows us to identify who Babylon is. Egypt is included as part of the 7 heads of the first beast of Rev 13. The seven heads include Egypt and Assyria. There is a reason why the first beast includes the beasts from Dan 7 but separates out the 7 heads.

    You still have not answered me why the fourth beast is not mentioned in the first beast of Rev 13. It seems all I do every day is answer your questions and I don't see you answering back when your questions are clearly answered and a followup question is presented.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You don't see it do you? Rome clearly is mentioned being struck by the mountain cutout without hands. What is the materials the mountain strikes?

    It clearly looks to me like the iron extends down to the toes, it's just the feet that get some clay mixed in with them. I think scriptures pretty clear on that...

    [​IMG]
     

  5. Hi Joshua:I

    It does not say anywhere is Daniel 2 that the stone hit's the legs. It clearly say's that the stone hits the image on the "feet" which is Anglo/America and has nothing whatsoever to do with Rome. I am done discussing this with you Joshua. This is like discussing the trinity with a born again christian at the door. You get nowhere fast as we are doing. May Jehovah bless you, over and out. When the "death blow" comes it will hit squarely where Daniel 2 says it will, and Rome or Italy for that matter will not be involved in the destruction from the death blow.

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    lol... You claim Rome is the iron in the image as the legs, the iron continues into the feet and the mountain hits the iron and clay feet, because some clay gets mixed with the iron at the bottom of the legs (feet), but you refuse to admit the iron in the feet is the same iron in the legs... Hmmm

    The scripture clearly is saying some clay is mixed in with the iron, so therefore the iron carries on until the mountain strikes it, even though some clay mixes with it, this is the clear reading.

    Dan 2:33 its legs were of iron, and its feet were partly of iron and partly of clay.

    It is the same iron in the legs that is also in the feet mixed with clay, iron is iron and Rome represents the iron whether in the legs or feet.... Period

    One surely isn't proposing that though Rome represents the iron in the legs, that all of a sudden iron represents two different things in one single sentence at Dan 2:33?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I know your not an anti-type guy but I have to go there...;) because of this scripture. I do believe and have come to understand that this event in Dan 8 has had a 20th century fulfillment. Dan 8:19 Then he said: “Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end.

    As you know, I believe the small horn is the UN, I also believe the horn before it that was conspicuous was the league of nations, and this battle in Dan 8 was WWI.

    Okay, now let's address Dan 8;

    The great battle between the ram and the he-goat. What we are going to determine here is did this vision have a modern day fulfillment? Let's look;

    "And he proceeded to say to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of [the] end." (Dan 8:17b)

    So the visions in the 8th chapter pertain to the time of the end according to verse 17 as well as their original fulfillment. So without a doubt the vision of the ram and he-goat carry a dual prophecy in that of their original completion in that war between Medo-Persia and that of Greece however, just as the angel Gabriel tells Daniel, this vision is also meant for the "time of the end". In what way and how are we to determine how this vision gives us information of the time of the end? Let's look;

    In our studies into Dan 7 we come to realize that the second chapter of Daniel and it's immense image becomes a map in understanding the beasts in chapter 7. We have a clear understanding of who the first beast in that of the lion represents, and as well that fourth beast, but how about the other two? Well Dan 8 will help us with that. Using our immense image in chapter 2 as a ruler we can determine who this ram and he-goat is representative of in the time of the end.

    “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me′di·a and Persia." (Dan 8:20)

    "And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece;" (Dan 8:21)

    “And after you there will rise another kingdom inferior to you; and another kingdom, a third one, of copper, that will rule over the whole earth.."
    (Dan 2:39)

    "And, see there! another beast, a second one, it being like a bear. And on one side it was raised up, and there were three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and this is what they were saying to it, ‘Get up, eat much flesh.’" (Dan 7:5)

    “After this I kept on beholding, and, see there! another [beast],one like a leopard, but it had four wings of a flying creature on its back. And the beast had four heads, and there was given to it rulership indeed." (Dan 7:6)

    So there we have it, we understand that the ram represents the second beast of Dan 7 and that of the bear, and the he-goat represents the third of the leopard. Briefly what we are about to show moving on here is that in fact the 8th chapter of Daniel is describing the first world war and that of the League of Nations. Let's get right into it;

    This battle is that of the age old battle between North and South. Chapter 11 of Dan is really a complete history of these battles. So let's pull from it this battle between the ram and he-goat;

    “And he will arouse his power and his heart against the king of the south with a great military force; and the king of the south, for his part, will excite himself for the war with an exceedingly great and mighty military force. And he will not stand, because they will scheme out against him schemes. And the very ones eating his delicacies will bring his breakdown.“And as for his military force, it will be flooded away, and many will certainly fall down slain. “And as regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to doing what is bad, and at one table a lie is what they will keep speaking. But nothing will succeed, because [the] end is yet for the time appointed. “And he will go back to his land with a great amount of goods, and his heart will be against the holy covenant. And he will act effectively and certainly go back to his land." (Dan 11:25-28)

    Now as to these two kings identities in the time of the end;

    "When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. And the two horns were tall, but the one was taller than the other, and the taller was the one that came up afterward. I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts kept standing before it, and there was no one doing any delivering out of its hand. And it did according to its will, and it put on great airs." (Dan 8:3,4)

    Now who in the first world war represents these two horns? None other then the German-Austria/Hungary Central Powers and that of the North. The second being taller that came after was of course Germany being just a few years younger then its partner. Now quickly on to that he-goat;

    "And I, for my part, kept on considering, and, look! there was a male of the goats coming from the sunset upon the surface of the whole earth, and it was not touching the earth. And as regards the he-goat, there was a conspicuous horn between its eyes." (Dan 8:5)

    Here we have the Allies in that of the South, the French, Brits, Russia. That not touching the earth? No doubt the first use of airplanes in warfare!

    Now, how do we know that this vision is meant to represent WWI in the common era? Well let's take a look. Seen between its eyes is a conspicuous horn, not one understanding ambiguous sayings but conspicuous. In fact we know this horn is before the small horn that comes from the fourth beast of Dan 7 for look;

    "And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens."
    (Dan 8:8)

    That horn was broken as soon as it became mighty and there proceeded to come up four instead of it toward the four winds! Remember Dan 7 and those four beasts from the four winds? Yep!

    “I happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others." (Dan 7:2)

    So we are made to understand that the 7th chapter of Dan in chronology actually comes after chapter 8! That horn that was between the eyes of the he-goat was the conglomeration of the king of the south in the Allie powers that defeat the ram in that of the Central Powers. But once that occurs the horn is broken and the four beasts come from the four winds in Daniel 7, it is not till then that a small horn is seen coming from one of those four. Look here;

    "And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one, and it kept getting very much greater toward the south and toward the sunrising and toward the Decoration." (Dan 8:9)

    "I kept on considering the horns, and, look! another horn, a small one," (Dan 7:8)

    These two horns are of course the same entity because we know both are said coming against gods people and removing the constant feature.

    So according to scripture who can we determine is to be represented by the bear and leopard of Dan 7? The allies being that of the leopard and it's four heads and wings and the Axis being that of the bear coming into WWII. Those three ribs in the mouth of the bear? They are the king of the North and those three Axis members of Germany/Italy/Japan. Those are the very three horns that fall before the small horn that comes up from the fourth beast. Those three horns originally being part of that conspicuous horn in Chapter 8, or first king!
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Joshua, you are the man. I love the passion and your desire to lay these things out.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    And you SingleCell, I appreciate you and as well others on here. As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another.

    It is not our own understanding we strive for, we want truth. We want Jehovah's will, his words, his will. That is our goal, and we must always push out any presumptuousness or personal understanding in order to always strive for Jehovah's words to be shown. We have this book from him my dear brother, he is capable of allowing us to understand it, if the time is right, or it be his will...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Indeed, and the prophecies are icing on the cake :D
     

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