The United Nations is NOT the 8th king...again.

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Cristo, Jun 25, 2014.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Roberts work on Daniel 11 is a great starting point, it's only up to verse 29 where he respectfully skews. The king of the North is Oligarchy rule based and centered in the London financial district. The south is Democratic rule centered in the US. This is the toes of the stature, iron mixed with clay. Both the South and the North have been combined into an unworkable union now for 50 years. You quoted the scripture discussing it; “As regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to do what is bad, and they will sit at one table speaking lies to each other. But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the time appointed." They sit at the same table, starting with the league of nations in 1920.

    You have to understand that the elite have been trying to bring down democracy for hundreds of years now. The Rothchilds, Kissinger, CFR, Bilderberg, they have all financed just about every war in the last 300 years on both sides, to bring about destabilization. The king of the north are those left over from Roman rule who want a one world order, and every since they lost that power after WWII in Britain, they have been trying to get it back. Remember that Britain at one time owned most of the world. The elite always hated that they lost the colonies in America, and so the societies like the Illuminati were set up to bring about a one world government even if it took generations.

    Roberts work into all of this is very accurate, and much of it is easily accessible on youtube.

    Dan 11:25-28 is speaking of the first world war. Britain won that war hands down and collect many nations and money's and power, but however the death toll were well over 37 million. And in fact where it says "his heart will be against the holy covenant" that most likely is when the brothers were jailed in 1917. Now verse 29 is talking about the second world war, and as we know that wasn't so good for Britain, if it were not for the Anglo-American loan, that 7th king would have died, but his wound was healed. The ships of Kittim are airplanes. The final battle when Anglo-America goes down does not come until verse 40.
     
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    Cristo

    Cristo Member

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    Revelation 13:3-5 “. . .And I saw one of its heads[Anglo-America] as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed[ascends out of the abyss], and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?â€￾ 5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it.â€￾


    The beast that is healed in 13:3 is the SAME as the beast in Rev 17:8,11. That beast that is healed IS THE 8TH KING.
    Revelation 17:8 “8 The wild beast that you saw[Anglo-America] was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.â€￾

    Revelation 17:11 “. . .And the wild beast that was[Anglo-America] but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.â€￾



    This eighth king is only given 42 months to act. Not the 60 to 70 years, as your analysis claims.


    Also, your analysis still fails to follow the pattern set by history, which you yourself state must occur.


     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Wrong, the collection of beasts in Rev 13 is the UN. The death stroke was to Britain/Rome. From that death stroke healing came the second beast in Rev 13 with two horns, Anglo-America. The head with the death-stroke was Britain.


    The Eighth king has not even come to be the Eighth king. What you are missing is the small horn exists along side the beast it comes from, before it becomes the Eighth king. Therefore the Eighth king exists in a small form before the beast it comes from is destroyed/Anglo-America. Also, nowhere does it say the Eighth king acts 42 months, the small horn does. The beast in Rev 17 comes from the abyss, not the sea like Rev 13. The eighth king does not come from a healed death blow in Rev 13, it comes from the utter destruction of the king of the south and Democracy, ergo oligarchy wins. In Rev 17:11 the wild beast that was is that beast in Rev 13 along with it's healed head of Britain was as you see it in Rev 13, ok now it goes down when the beast it comes from is killed/Anglo=America. Now at that point like a phoenix rising from the ashes the UN along with it's ten non-members rule the world.

    You say my analysis fails, however you fail to even understand it let alone explain it all... Therefore your analysis is greatly flawed.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I completely agree with you (and Robert, who introduced me to what you just laid out).

    I'm just not so sure about the timeline starting with '46, primarily because the death-stroke causes the world to gaze in awe when the beast resurrects, I'm not sure we can say that about '46.. - the actors are correct however, I believe.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    You are missing my point. Rev 17:8 has not occurred yet. Rev 13 has, Rev 17 has not. What you still aren't grasping is that 1946 wasn't the moment the Eighth king came about, that is still future. Look at this scripture again, pay close attention to what I point out;

    “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire."

    This little horn exists before the beast it comes from is destroyed, which is the moment it becomes the Eighth king. Again look SingleCell, pay close attention, the horn exists along side the 7th king before the small horn becomes the Eighth king. Do you see it? The small horn is speaking and carrying on arrogance well before it's creator is destroyed, which then allows the small horn to become the final earthly king.

    The small horn comes into existence, now nearly 70 years later it has not yet become the Eighth king, but will some day. Right now it is just a small horn waiting to come against the constant feature...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    But isn't Revelation 17:8 the death-stroke (was, but is not, but yet will ascend)?

    Correlating with Rev 13:3, where it 'was, but is not (the stroke), and resurrects'

    It then empowers the little horn in 13:11, which appears to be a timeline reset verse, giving more insight and detail into the events of 13:3-10 (in other words 3-10 is the 7th head, 11-end is the little horn)

    I agree with you about the iron / clay, the identify of KOTN and KOTS - but the death-stroke in my mind hasn't happened, and 1946's loan from the US -> UK seems too 'small potatoes' to the event described in 13:3 and 17:8

    The world worships the resurrected beast (UK was never worshiped post-46, at least no more so than previously), and it immediately empowers the little horn (which I have no problem identifying as the already existing shell of the UN).

    Also note 13:5

    "It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months."

    After it resurrects and empowers the 'mouth' little horn, the 3 1/2 year countdown begins - this hasn't happened, and I believe must correlate with 17:8.

    edit: wow, I missed Christo's post ... seems like he made the same argument :) , I agree Christo, exactly how I see it
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I think we need separate KOTN, KOTS, MOL, 7th head, 8th king threads :)

    Then we can debate which verses applies to which actor and see what we can find.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No, absoluteily not, no, and no, and no, not so whatsoever. The death stroke of Rev 13 is in no way connected to Rev 17 and the Eighth king rising. Dan 7:11 says the beast is killed by second death. There is no coming back from that, there is no healing. How is democracy still in existence if the king of the north wins, who is Oligarchy??? Rev 13 beast comes from the sea, Rev 17 beast comes from the abyss. Show me scriptural proof that the death stroke form the beast in Rev 13 that is healed is the same moment the Eighth king rises in Rev 17, it doesn't exist. Trust me I've considered what you have said, many years ago. I've considered all possibilities, writing them down, connecting this entity in time to that entity in time, there is only one answer. The chronology only works one way.

    Rev 13:11 is not the little horn. Rev 13:11 is Anglo-America. The little horn is the first beast. The death stroke to one of the heads (7th king/Britain) brings about the second beast at Rev 13:11/Anglo-America. The fire from heaven in the sight of the first beast was the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan, the image of the beast is the actually buildings of the UN in New York.

    Rev 13:3 and Rev 17:8 are two seperate events seperated by at least 60 years on and going. The death stroke in Rev 13 was to the 7th king Rome......... Which happened to be Britain, since it was the only province of Rome still in existance. Let alone being an Oligarchy rule still.... Rev 17 and the Eighth king will not come until that beast rises from the abyss in the wake of the king of south going into destruction, utterly destroyed, no healing whatsoever, Anglo-America/Democracy.

    Again, again, again, please SingleCell reread my posts thoroughly. I really don't believe you are reading them through. The beast as described in Rev 17 that was, but is not, and yet to be, has not occurred yet. Rev 13 and the death stroke has, but Rev 17 hasn't. These are two separate events and are not the same, they are not the same moment......... The death stroke to the head in Rev 13 has absolutely nothing to do with the 8th king rising from the abyss....................

    I don't know what else I can say. I keep saying it over and over and over. The Eighth king is not the one that acts 42 months. The death stroke to one of the heads in Rev 13 is not the same moment the Eighth king rises. Can I say it any clearer? Is there a way I can say it so you understand better? If I can please let me know...
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Thank you Joshua for taking the time to explain that, it actually clicked :)

    I have some challenges for you, but where I think we were getting mixed up between our outlines is the notion that the Roman empire continued until ~1700s when the 'clay' emerged.

    (I always read the clay as the nation-state system of Europe starting around ~800)

    So that discrepancy created a break point.

    I'm a 'list' type person, by category, as I'm sure you can tell!

    So I'm thinking we should make a list of the actors, and the scriptures we think applies to them. It would probably be beneficial for everyone interested.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    According to scripture the clay mixed with the iron the moment Anglo-America came to be in 1946 as the 7th king. Rome continued as Britannia up until it received the death blow in WWII necessitating the Anglo-American loan and combining Oligarchical rule with Democracy.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    But why conclude that the clay only came into existence in 1946?

    What about the nation-state system of Europe which was in a constant struggle against the defunct empire attempting to maintain control through the Vatican?

    I don't see any scriptural impetus to conclude that the clay only came into existence recently, rather that it was an outgrowth of Roman republicanism.

    Clay = republicanism
    Iron = emperor system
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It's been argued that the Queen is still in control when you consider that the center of Oligarchical rule and world finance is centered in London. When Europe's climate of nation state was being integrated it didn't change the fact that the structure of the king and queen still remained, and all those who still wanted to rule the world as such. So therefore from what I remember from Roberts work is that Rome continued on in those elitist that even today are still planing world domination. It's been a few years since I read Roberts work on that specific subject, but the principle still remains.

    Also keep in mind you have a 7th king that comes into being, since Rome was the 6th. So why wouldn't the toes have been created at the same moment that 7th king came to be? You have to pinpoint the moment that 7th king came into existence, and of course would be the same moment the clay mixed with the iron.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    I love Roman history, it's a hobby of mine.

    (when Rome transitioned from 'empire' into the nation-state system is hotly debated)

    But Rome effectively lost the empire in ~400 when the Germanic states took over through attrition and various other factors internally and externally.

    This led to the feudal societies in Europe, which IMO are the iron and clay mix - take the Magna Carta, a precursor to the Consitution which effectively said "there is no king but God".

    That is a very 'clay' like statement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Roman_Empire

    Now you could argue that the "holy empire" replaced the emperors of Rome, but that is a bit of a stretch looking at the history, and presence of the nation-states with their constant battle with the papacy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    With that said, what we want to know is what the Bible says each entity is. I don't think it's as important when the clay was mixed with the iron, as it is when the 7th king was formed. The importance of understanding Dan 7, 8, Rev 13, 17 is to understand that the 7th king is Anglo-America=Fourth beast of Dan 7=Second beast of Rev 13.
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Kinda-sorta :)

    For example, we can understand that Greece is the 3rd beast, but what if we incorrectly ascribe the 4 horns to the wrong events?

    Personally I read Daniel 7 as a broad overview of Rome -> "The West" -> little horn

    Daniel 8 is Medo-Persia -> Greece -> skips Rome -> "The West" -> little horn

    (hence, Daniel 7 and 8 are 'greco-roman' history up until the little horn)

    Rather than being detailed events during the time of the end - hence my 'stumbled' comment about Daniel 7:11

    We agree about the identities, for the most part, but disagree about what events correspond to those entities.
     
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  16. Hi Josh:

    It can, and has been also argued that the "Crown" is actually under the control of the Vatican by treaty. Also, there is a very convincing theory going around the economic community that the Chinese have foreclosed on Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve due to forfeiture of the IRS income tax revenue stream of the U.S. Treasury due to not having China's Gold to return to them. They were using the revenue stream bonds as collateral on the Gold. So, in essence the Chinese may be the new owners of the Federal Reserve and Goldman Sachs, or at least a substantial portion thereof. You are not figuring in the BRICS alliance in your prophetic calculations and I think that is a shortsighted mistake. They are the only nations on the planet that have any "real" money that is not backed by only "confidence". Soon, there will be no "confidence" left in fiat currency that is not backed by some "real" commodity and the "petro dollar" is gasping it's last breath.

    frank
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    What is the constant feature that the little horn comes against?
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    Christian worship, ministry, expression - forcing us to 'go underground' (the earth swallows us up)

    Perhaps it's JWs, more specifically, because I'm convinced the majority of churches will drop the Christ and show their true 'colors' (red, white and blue in the case of US evangelicals)

    "fall on us mountains"

    [but Christians from all denominations who perceive these things will join together, and we'll just be 'Christians' again - not 'my church vs your church']
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    So the time of the end?
     
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    SingleCell

    SingleCell Experienced Member

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    The 3 1/2 years, yes. (actually, hang on a sec, but i'll leave this here)

    edit: 2300 days, Daniel 8:14

    Once the spiritual temple is in the right condition, we'll "each one know Jehovah" and will not need to be taught; the 'church system' will be over.
     
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