Also, while your considering that, think about another of Jehovah's attributes, "anger". Did that one exist before mankind was created?
Simply the the word IS the expressed will of God. How God gets his thoughts and desires I do not know!!! That is God's ALMIGHTINESS that is WHY he is God. When God gave the law to the Israelites that was God's expressed will AT THE TIME and the law became known as the word. When God gave Jeremiah the prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed, that was the expressed will of God, the word of God at that time. Regardless of what beginning, God expresses that which he wants to accomplish. Isa 55:11 As I have said on previous occasions the beginning at John is NOT specific. It is (a) beginning, translaters translate it as THE beginning, but it could be at some time. The correct way to grasps the meaning is to WHY John wrote his gospel!! To me the understanding of what John was implying, Is WHY we need a Messiah in the first place (John's purpose for writing the gospel. Jn 20:31). John 1:1-18 being an introduction or prologue, a shorten compliation of what had taken place before hand without going into all the details, that, would follow the prologue. So what John is saying is that at one time, in (a) beginning, God's will was expressed, = God's original purpose for man and the earth. Covering the period of Gen 1:2-Gen 3:14. God's will was not carried out to completion by Adam. So an adjustment was necessary for God's original purpose to be fulfilled. That adjustment was another expression of God's will (His promise of a seed to undo the wrong of Adam). that would remain hidden WITH God for about 4000 years until he was ready to reveal who the seed was. (Along the way God provide additional details to help us as we looked to the revealing of the seed. And so the expressed will of God was pertaining to God, having his will accomplished. That will began to be accomplished when Jesus was anointed with the responsibility of being the Messiah, the lamb of God, ect. the one foretold to be the anointed one. As he himself said, "I have come O'God in the scroll of the book written ABOUT me to do your WILL. And I have shown in previous posts how he was filled with the spirit / word in fulfilment of Deut 18:15 and Isa 11:2. John has no reason to mention the physcial birth as his intention is to show Jesus is the one who receives the spirit of God = the Messiah. And just as the word / spirit was in the beginning with God in accomplishing the physcial creation. God's word and spirit on and in Jesus will accomplish his expressed will and purpose. Fulfilling God's original purpose. Hope that explains it. KInd regards IABB.
Josh! I don't know!! What is anger and how would it be created? By the repulsiveness of things going contrary to the will of God perhaps? I would imagine he has a knowledge of right and wrong and what is good and bad. (the tree in the garden for example.) So I would assume it was and is part of Gods qualities. Cheers!
A little info: I'm having trouble with my ancient laptop, so I can't stay on too long. It's really slow. My other computer will not run my internet program with the blockers that I normally use. Now, with all the "robots", and the latest with Facebook, I will be sparingly accessing this site. I told my kids (actually middle aged) that I'm cautious with what I put online. You never know who's gathering what. And I'm careful with who I chose to share my ideas or beliefs with.
Hi The WTS is looking for new light! They are fishing for ideas from faders and d/f people Ha ha masquerading as inquirers in diferent forums. I Hope they find it. Cheers, Hope your laptop can handle it!
Are you saying Jehovah knew Adam and Eve would sin? In order for Jesus to have been given the "word" or will of God at his baptism, and that will or "word" to always have been, that means you are saying Jehovah always new from eternity Adam and Eve would sin, even before creating them, right?
No, I am not saying that. Because the scriptures do not say so. But it is obvious, God did not want them to sin, but live forever. The example of the two specific trees prove that. One that would bring death for him and his future offspring, and the other if he ate of, would sustain his life perpetually forever. The word / spirit, Jesus was filled with was the commission to preach the good news of salvation in harmony with all the things written about him in the law, psalms and the prophets. Jn 1:41-45, Luke 24:25-27 Things pertaining to God's purpose to undo the wrong done by Adam and to fulfil the messanic promises starting at Gen 3:15. It maybe that the coverings of skins that God made for Adam and Eve could have been from a lamb sacrificed my God symolizing the lamb slained before the founding of the world. Or it maybe it is incorporated in Gen 3:15 / Gen 22 that Jesus would be killed and raise to victorious glory and kingship. It is by this promise that the unborn offspring come to life in Gods eyes. That was the promise, The reality came 4000 years later. We cannot rule out the fact that God knows from the beginning the outcome even before it happens. You seem to have in your mind that of a set in concrete word. That does not change. Jehovah will change or adjust his purpose in accordance with his righteous ways, It was Gods will to destroy the Ninevehites but changed his mind and purpose when they repented. Giving mercy. That is not to be mistaken to lying or breaking promises but adjusting to the circumstances so all can benefit of God's divine mercy. While his promises are true and firm he always allows for free will to be a factor in the salvation of his people. Wanting all to gain repentence is the call I hear often. Warm brothly love.
My! That's a good one! If it can be manifested than it is possibel it exists in a state of non-action. Something that lays dormant until provoked.
The problem is, you say Jesus was given Gods "word" which is his will and way of redeeming mankind, but you also say that "word" always existed, which would have been before Adam and Eve were created.
So your saying the "word" of God can change, then the "word" of God in Jhn 1 is just Gods ability to talk... Because he gave his word to people that failed to do his will, and he can change his will at anytime. So Jhn 1:1 is simply telling us God can talk... Well, I'm pretty sure we all knew that...
The problem your having is limiting the word of God. If God were to express himself on some aspect of his will today it would obviously be something different to what he spoke centuries ago. God does not lose his ability to speak or express himself because of time. He has demostrated that many time over the ages. It is what he does for all the prophets of God. The word or the expression of God is what Jesus spoke, God was speaking to the people through Jesus. For example: ** Jn 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not observe my words. The word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me ** Jn 12:49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. The word undelined in the above quote is the Father's Logos = ho logos (as of Jn 1:1) Jesus said the Ho Logos you are HEARING IS NOT MINE. Jesus was speaking his father word that had been given him. Jesus represented God, a plenipotentiary of God. it was as if he was God, just like Moses was God to pharaoh. Deut 18:15-18. Jesus was the man, a prophet raised up like Moses in whom God said he would PUT his word. Act3:22-26 I believe Jesus was telling the truth, do You?
You say Jehovah gave Jesus his "word" to accomplish his will, yes of course he did, everyone knows that, that's not what I'm arguing. I've said he preached his word, so did Jonah, so did Moses, so did Noah. You're still not understanding what I'm trying to get you to see... Let me try another way; You say Jesus was given Jehovah's "word" that we see in Jhn 1:1 right? And that "word" (according to you is God's infallible will) that Jesus was to accomplish. What if Jesus would have sinned, had failed? He could have or Satan wouldn't have tempted him. He could not have made up for Adam had he not been able to sin. What about all the other men in the Bible who received the "word" of God and failed, who spoke directly to God but they failed to accomplish his "word"? Now, what does that make the "word" according to you in Jhn 1:1, infallible?
Your limiting the word of God to some fixed word. A purpose can be stated but there are ways and means of fulilling that purpose. Jesus was given Gods word at his baptism to fulfill God's word or purpose. Deut 18:15-18 What you fail to understand is that God's word is his EXPRESSED will or thoughts. For example, God gave the law through Moses. AT that time Gods will or purpose was that the Israelites live according to law. The law was the expressed will of God at that time, but it had a bearing in fulfilling God's eternal purpose that was outline in God's word in Gen 1:26-31. The law came to be called the word ( it certianly did not mean the law = Jesus.) Ps 119.
I do understand completely, and that's exactly what I believe, what's gongo on here is your not understanding what I'm trying to get you to understand. Please read my last post above. You keep arguing as if I don't believe Christ came to preach his Father's word. Brother, everything he did was from him, he did nothing of his own initiative. Your not grasping what I'm trying to get across to you...
The word is (not) God's ability to talk. You splitting hairs trying to find fault in God's word. The word is what comes out of the mouth as meaningful speech, it can be a message, a song/psalm, a prophecy, the Bible, a book, the ten commandments, was God's word (not his ability to speak.) come on brother give me some credit. Read Ps 119 it is all about God's word and Ps119 is not dedicated to Jesus as the word. Try and get things in perspective. Words express thoughts and what is in your mind, it is not an ability to speak. It's good if you can speak, than you can express what is on your mind. That is what Jesus did he expressed the thought of God because God was doing his work through him. Acts 10:38
Then you make Jhn 1:1 nothing more then telling us God speaks just like us. Some may listen, some may not. It will be done or not, and according to you the "word" in Jhn 1:1 is fallible just like ours. I'll stick with the Word in Jhn 1:1 being the first creation by God.