Okay, I'm going to open this discussion up in a new thread, because it was about to take over another...

In my recent journey through Rev 12 some very important questions have been raised, including this subject of when Christ Jesus begins his rule. So please get involved and let's walk through some very poignant information.

Jesus sits at the right hand of God after ascending;

Heb 10:12-13 "But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet."

Therefore the moment Jesus sits at the right hand of his Father is after he gives his perfect life a ransom for mankind and ascends into heaven.

Notice also that he will sit at the right hand of God until his enemies are placed at his feet. Now, when is that?

Read 1Cor 15:24,25 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet."

Therefore Jesus will continue to sit at God's right hand until after the end of the 1000 years, all the while he will be ruling.

So the question is, when does Jesus take the throne?

In my thread "Rev 12 / Verse by Verse" I have shown how Satan was thrown out of heaven when Jesus ascended, arguing the 1260 days referenced in that chapter represent the final half of the 70th week between the sacrifices at the temple no longer being valid, and Cornelius being baptized, although the 1260/42 having an end time fulfillment as well.

If Jesus sits at the right hand of God all the way until the end of the 1000 year rule of the brothers of Christ, then that means Jesus takes the throne the moment he sits at his fathers right hand.

There must be a slight adjustment to the understanding of God's kingdom in order for this to be so. God's kingdom is established first in heaven when Satan is thrown out the moment Jesus ascends in complete victory over sin.

Rev 12:10 "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

But it has to be made clear that this kingdom is established in heaven at this moment and not yet here on earth.

Rev 12:12 "On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

And as mentioned, this kingdom does not extend to the earth until the kingdom is established in this world.

Rev 11:15 "The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

Therefore Christ Jesus took the throne and ruled over the heavenly kingdom of God when he ascended to the throne from his perfect life on earth, and has been ruling now for 2000 years, while all the angels worship him as God.

Now however, we await for that moment here on earth, when Satan's kingdom is no more, and God's kingdom extends to the earth as well the moment the two witnesses are no longer preaching in sackloth. (Rev 11:3)

May God's kingdom come to this world...

 

Revelation 12 is pretty cryptic.

Are the 1260 days in 12:6 the same 1260 (time, times, half a time) in 12:14?

If yes, 12:6 is talking about the "future time" when that 3.5 yr period occurs, and 12:7 gaps forward to the concluding period.

Meaning Satan wasn't thrown down after Jesus ascended, but it's a time gap from Jesus going to the throne (the time gap being the wilderness) until that feeding program (the 1260) begins.

If no, then you might be onto something.

I *think* the data points towards Rev 12 containing that time gap, otherwise, Satan was thrown down ~2000 years ago with a "short time left"?

Also the prophetic verbage "Woe for the earth" seems to correlate with the trumpet woes, and the "stars falling from the heaven" e.g. Satan cast out, as a conclusion event.

I'm reading this as:

Rev 12 is a brief summary of Israel -> Jesus; then it's a time gap to Satan thrown down which leads into Revelation 13, where Satan wages war against the "remaining ones of her seed" through the death-stroke healed final king.

In that view, Rev 12 and 13 are one chapter.

 

See, I knew I could count on you brother, you just touched base on every single objection I've had to overcome. Nice job indeed...

Here's the deal....

If we know from 1Cor 15 that Jesus sits at Gods right hand all the way to the end of the 1000 years, while he rules, at which point his enemies are placed at his feet at that time, including death, then that cannot be used to determine when he begins ruling. As well we know he sits at God's hand as soon as he ascends.

Now this question of when Satan is thrown out is important. Yes, I had always thought there was a 2000 year gap between Rev 12:5 & 6;

"And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne. (2000 year gap) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

But that never really made sense to me either, to have such a gap when the women seems to be fleeing directly after the child being snatched away to God.

Then there is another huge problem, Rev 12:13, 14 seems to indicate that Satan is thrown out before the 1260 days begin, which means (as you bring up) contradicts the three woes of the trumpets. I had given great consideration that one of the woes of the last three trumpets played a part in Satan's ouster, but verses 13 & 14 strongly suggest he is thrown out before the two witnesses begin their work in the 42 months.

As for the short time Satan would have, we should remember that a day in heaven is a thousand years to us, and that if Satan had been alive for millions or even billions of years prior to the first century, 2000 of our years certainly would have been a very short time to him. Besides the fact he may not have known exactly how long he had at that point, not even Jesus knew while on earth...

Now, if the 1260 days in Rev 12 are speaking of a dual prophecy, then we may be on to something. Let's say the 1260 days referenced were the persecution of Christs brothers directly after he was executed? After his death they were sifted and great persecution was upon them from let's say Jesus execution to Cornelius, or Stephens execution to the attempt on Paul in Damascus, these events were 3 years between, and if you insert the understanding of the 70th week (that the WTS also holds) that the last half of the week, or 1260 days ran from Jesus sacrifice to Cornelius, we have a time period that the women would flee into the wilderness and the dragon attempted to drown her, in those early days.

Maybe this is the reason the two witnesses are said to preach 42 months, it mixes it up and states it in a different manner. Because the only real reason Rev 12 states the 1260 is to allow us to decipher the "time, times and half a time" as 1260 days, so that we can understand how long the time period is in Dan 12.

Now we have a glaring issue at Rev 12:10; "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

The kingdom is said to begin its rule the moment Satan is thrown out, which means this does not fit the end time chronology at all! Anywhere, no way, no how... I tried to justify it by saying it's just the power of the kingdom, or what have you, but clearly the salvation was the moment Jesus gave his life, and it clearly says not only the power of the kingdom, but separately the kingdom itself.

With all the scriptures talking about Jesus receiving power, and the angels worshiping him and the heavens being glad in Rev 12, the only thing that takes away all the paradoxes is if the 1260 days spoken of in Rev 12 are speaking of the time right after Jesus ascended, and Satan was thrown out right then and the kingdom of God was established in heaven, but that does not mean it was established here on earth, or that the 42 months to come wont occur, because there will still be a 42 months time times and half a time that not only showed itself after Jesus ascended, but also showed itself from 66-70 CE at the Jewish revolt, and as well in the Maccabean revolt.

I am continuing to work on this to determine if there are any further paradoxes, but I haven't as of yet been able to find one...

 

It's also important to note that once the 7th trumpet sounds, it does not say that is the moment the kingdom is established, in fact it says the kingdom of the "world" becomes the kingdom of God. Still not precluding the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven in the first century however, does hint to the kingdom of God on earth being established at this moment.

Rev 11:15 "The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

 

The covenant for a kingdom was fulfilled the moment the king was anointed. The moment Christ Jesus was baptized marked the moment the fulfillment of the old covenant for a kingdom.

Beginning the 70th week, this covenant was held in place for the "many" (that being the Jewish nation itself), for one week, or equaling 7 years.

Dan 9:27 "And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week;"

At the half of that week gift offerings and sacrifices ceased, meaning the sacrifices at the temple were no longer valid once Christ Jesus gave his life as ransom for all.

Dan 9:27b "and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease."

At which point Christ Jesus ascended into heaven to sit at Gods right hand the moment he took the throne, until his enemies are placed at his feet.

Rev 12:5 "And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne."

This was the half of the 70th week, at which point Satan is cast to the earth, and the women flees into the wilderness for that last half of that 70th week.

Rev 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

The king of Gods kingdom was anointed at his baptism, and that kingdom was established in heaven when Satan is cast out once Christ Jesus returns to heaven, at which point Christ Jesus takes the throne next to Jehovah.

How long is Christ Jesus to sit next to Jehovah on his throne? Until the very end of the story, until the end of the 1000 years when death is done away with completely.

1 Cor 15:25,26 "For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."

The kingdom is established in heaven 2000 years before that kingdom comes to the earth, hence the prayer Jesus directed his disciples to keep in mind.

Mth 6:10 "Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth."

Although Christ Jesus becomes king of Gods kingdom in heaven at his baptism, and then sits on his fathers throne upon returning to heaven, he does not receive the crown of rulership over the earth till deep in the time of the end.

Rev 6:10 "And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest."

Once that 70th week ended, the covenant for the kingdom was no longer just for the "many" (physical Israel), but it was then extended to any race or nation to come into that covenant for a kingdom. (Dan 9:27)

 

Your questions just show you don't thoroughly read the threads, or simply don't take the time to look into what I have posted, even when you post in the exact same thread I wrote on this subject. I posted a thread with a scripture by scripture definition of Rev 12, of which you posted on.

The answers to you questions were in the thread "Rev 12 / Verse By Verse"