Why would any true Christian, who follows what God says, care about what the beast says, especially in relation to one's worship of Him?

Right, but why should a Christian care? Where is the compulsion that the beast is supposed to be using?

Right, and the beast isn't my God, so why should I be worried about what it says?

Right, that would be a problem for those whose relationship with God depends on, and operates through a Church, instead of through Jesus Christ, as indeed it does with most Christians who have bought into the package which their denomination sells; but since 'true worshipers' worship in Spirit and Truth, rather than in this or that 'mountain,' representing religious organizations, it is not an issue for them.

Good, we are on the same page.

Perhaps we agree here as well; my question about my own understanding is: are we to take it that the beast receiving the sword stoke is the present multi-polar world, or will there be a merger of the US with Russia, China and India first, brought about through a world war, before it gets the sword stroke?


Harry

 

What about Ro 2:14: "For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused."

If they don't take the mark of the beast, they are in line to come out of the great tribulation, it seems.

Do you agree that the 'mark of the beast' is connected with the 'hour of test?'

Because the hour of test 'is to come upon the whole inhabited earth, to put a test upon those dwelling on the earth.' Re 3:10

'Those dwelling on the earth' would be more than just Christians, right?

In fact, it has to refer to non-Christians, because believers are already mentioned as being kept from it; hence, the 'whole inhabited earth' means literally everybody on earth except true Christians.


Harry

 

I am going to start with a template set by Jesus. I am going to cite Scriptures that fit accordingly within that template. This is just a start, there will be more Scriptures cited accordingly.

WW3 / [7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.]

GT/ [9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.]

Sign of Jesus coming/ [24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.]

Jesus' second coming/ [26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]
__________________________________________

[8 ... And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.]

[24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

[2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.]

[5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.
“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. 33 And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.]

[4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.]

[6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.” 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb.12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

[29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.]

[25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”]

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

[12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”]

[17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]

[9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

So let me get this straight, y'all think the beast receives a death-stoke, then recovers at which point there are those that are said to follow the beast with admiration and will worship the beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” And of those people it says that their names are not written in the scroll of life.

Then y'all think a period of time goes by and this beast then goes into the abyss, then recovers/comes out at which point there will again be people who will be amazed when they see the beast come out of the abyss and of those people it says their names are not written in the scroll of life.

Let me add to this that the beast and his false prophet get thrown into the fiery lake by Jesus at Armageddon. The whole time the false prophet is working alongside the beast performing signs, etc., the beast is referred to as the one that had the death stroke and was healed.

On y'alls timetable isn't the false prophet working alongside of the beast after it came out of the abyss? If that is the case, why refer to it as the one that had the death stoke and was healed? Why not say it performs signs in the sight of the beast that came out of the abyss?
In ch 11 the beast is referred to as the one that came out of the abyss.

What do y'all say causes the death stroke?
What do y'all say causes the going into the abyss?

[3 I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshipped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshipped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.14 It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived.15 And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.16 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.]

[20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.]

[8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present.]

[7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.]

 

I see that as the 42 month period during which the disgusting thing, associated with the revived beast, tramples and desolates Christianity, just before Jesus returns, do you agree?

Do you mean WW3, as in 'sword stroke' on the beast?

Then I disagree, because I think we both agree that the great tribulation on Christianity has to happen after the sword stroke is healed; but if you compare the above passage in the parallel of Lu 21, namely verses 10 and 11, you will see that the great tribulation has to happen 'before [v 12] all these things' just mentioned in verses 10 and 11, meaning, the GT has to happen before 'nation against nation.'

Jesus promised to be with us 'until the conclusion,' and the disciples asked Him about this very conclusion, up to which point He would be with them in Spirit in verse 3; that is how it starts in Mat 24.

So, first [v5-6] He warns them not to be misled by false Christs and rumors of war, "for" [v7] at the 'conclusion,' when He would no longer be with them in Spirit, 'nation would rise against nation,' meaning, total destruction at Armageddon of the beast worshiping hordes, when the chosen ones will be with Him in Heaven to execute vengeance on the nations, dashing them to pieces like clay vessels.

Verses 7 and 8 are clearly a pericope, a break in the narrative, jumping ahead to the point of His coming at the conclusion, to then revert back to the end of verse 6, connecting it with verse 9 onward, to resume His narrative in chronological order with "then." [v9]

That this is the correct reading of the text can also be seen by the fact that in the lead up to Christ's coming - during the great tribulation on Christianity - the nations and their people will be preoccupied with the mundane things of life, taking no note, which precludes them from being in a state of rising up against each other.

This global slaughter of 'nation against nation' happens when all the tribes of the earth beat themselves in grief, with no way out at the roaring of the sea, when they see Christ arriving in power and great glory, as they turn against each other, realizing that they are done for.

The doubling up of the 'false Christs' passages in Mat 24:5,11,24, noticed in Mark 13:21 as "then too," need not refer to anything other than various stages during the 42 month of the great tribulation, where first, the 2 billion Christians will be sorted, most of whom will disavow Christianity in exchange for the 'blessings' under the 'incoming kingdom' of the revived beast, during which stage many false Christs seem to be active, but further down the line, when only the chosen ones and those who will make up a great crowd are left as those not taking the mark of the beast, 'then too' there will still be false Christs trying to mislead people, seems to be the intent of the text.

Any thoughts or disagreements?


Harry

 

I agree.

No, I don't believe that; if anything, the coming 'out of the abyss' could refer to its coming out of the sea before it receives the sword stroke.

The great reset, shutting down of the internet, the next global scamdemic, economic collapse, military conflict escalating into WW3, etc.

Same as above, unless it refers to its initial coming up out of the sea, like a reemerging anti type of the Roman empire or suchlike.


Harry

 

I don't know what you think you are saying. I only included you because you said that you agreed with Joshua on his view of death-stroke/abyssing. But what you are saying now is not what Joshua thinks.

In any case, how hard is it to see that the death-stroke/abyssing are the same. The cause of the death-stroke/abyssing is WW3 which occurs at the time the beast is the 7th king. Then with its healing/coming out of the abyss it emerges as the 8th king. Judgment of not being written in the scroll of life is only connected to how people view the 8th king. No one at this point is not written in the scroll of life based on their view of kings 1-7.

[8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present.]

(Before one of its heads gets fatally wounded it 'was'.)
[3 I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshipped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshipped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

[11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed. 13 And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.14 It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast,...16 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.]
[20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]

[2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who are victorious over the wild beast and its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps of God.]

 

Yes, I mean WW3 is the sword stroke on the beast (as 7th king).
And yes, the GT happens after the sword stroke gets healed. (as 8th king)

My order is WW3/POD is death-stroke on beast as 7th king.
Healed beast becomes 8th king bringing GT for 42 months on those wanting to worship God and not him.

What you say about Luke is not correct. I am not saying you're wrong because I know what it says there but what I am saying is that his account there is not consistent with other accounts and even his own.

When you compare Luke's account with Matthew and Mark you can see what the GT is:

[23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

[17 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 18 Keep praying that it may not occur in wintertime; 19 for those days will be days of a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time, and will not occur again.]

[19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.]

The GT is the appointed times of the nations which is the same time of the 42 months of the 8th king rule:

[5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

The things that make up WW3 are said to be the 'pangs of distress', they lead into what will be the time of GT/8th king rule. The 8th king rules after the 7th king, they don't rule at the same time. The only thing that can bring down/be the death-stroke on the 7th king and also be the pretext for making the UN the 8th king, is WW3.

The League of Nations came about due to WW1. UN came about due to WW2. WW3 is what is needed to make the UN the 8th king.

When Jesus comes, he comes to deliver/bring relief to those suffering/captive under the 8th king for not supporting/going along with him.

[24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]

[25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”]

(The people in pink that are faint with fear, these are the ones that have the mark/supported the 8th king. The ones that lift their heads are who refused the mark/refused to support the 8th king and thereby suffered tribulation/captivity under him. The sun, moon, star event is the 'sign' that Jesus is coming. Both groups see that 'sign' but have two different reactions based on what they know it means for them when Jesus comes. Everlasting destruction for the mark/supported the 8th king people and relief/deliverance for the refused the mark/refused to support the 8th king people-the GC at that time who come out of that GT upon them during the 8th king.)

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

 

That is true and it is the 7th head that gets the death stroke and is healed and that has not happed yet. How do we know that? Because it is after the point it is healed that the people will worship it and say who is like the beast and it is said of them that none of their names are written in the scroll of life. Can you point to a time where there are already these people who are not written in the scroll of life that worshiped the healed beast?

 

Can you cite Scriptures that show what you say is the GT period of 11/12/35-11-22-35?
Also, is that GT period of yours where the GC are said to come out from having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb? Revelation 7:9,10,13-17
Lastly, do you agree that according to the following, that the GT is the appointed times of the nations?


[23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

[17 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 18 Keep praying that it may not occur in wintertime; 19 for those days will be days of a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time, and will not occur again.]

[19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.]

 

Where you have War Oct/2034, is that where you place WW3 the 'pangs of distress'/the horsemen seals 1-4 where 2 billion people are said to die? Matt 24:7,8;rev 6:2-8

And what Scriptures can you cite that fits what you mean by abomination Nov 12, 2035?

Also, do you place the following at where you say Christ appears Nov 22, 2035?

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

 

I never said the sea was the abyss. There is a beast that comes out of the sea and a beast (false prophet) that comes out of the earth.

The beast that comes out of the sea originally and is on scene as a result of coming out of the sea, in order from him to then be said to come out from the abyss, he would have to go in there at some point. That point is the time it is said that the beast is not. Then it can be that he comes out. Going in the abyss is a death like state and coming out is a reviving state from that death like state. So it is that the death stroke is what cause it to go into the abyss and the healing of the death-stroke is what allows for it to be able to come out.

And as far as having 7 heads, of course it says that only on rules at a time. How can you say it doesn't?

[9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.]

John was living in the time of the 'one is' (6th). We are living in the time of the one that was to arrive. (7th) John's 6th head/king has fallen like the first 5. Now it is the 7th that gets the death-stoke but then gets healed in ordered to fulfil it being the 8th king and then it gets thrown into the fiery lake when Jesus comes.

So, you say the GT is from 11/12/35 to 11-22-35 and the GC wash their robes during that time?
Also, you think that the appointed times of the nations are from 11/12/35 to 11-22-35?

 

It is as though you have never read these Scriptures:

[12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”] cf. Revelation 14:9,10

That has NOTHING to do with the DT being placed. This is describing the same time that occurs after the GT when Jesus comes. All those trying to hide in the caves are scare of the wrath that will know come upon them. These are all supports of the 8th king. They all get killed off by Jesus and become bird food when he does away with the very 8th king and false prophet that they followed and were misled by.

[17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

Where do you place 'the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels', 'at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones' in your timeline?

From what tribulation are they suffering when Jesus comes to bring them relief?

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]