If I am wrong and you are right, then that would be great for me, and my wife as far as biblical events are concern. Your view is a cake walk for us. Nothing you say applies to us until your timing of WW3 in Oct 2034. If you are right, we can just keep adding to our savings for the next 8 years and then in Oct 2032 retire and stretch our savings out over 2 years until Oct 2034.
Whatever... You do you... The KOTN wins the final battle, which is the one that "is" at the same time the beast "is not" (Dan 11:40). The five that fall make up the KOTS. The UN is the conglomerate beast that John "saw" that goes down for not stopping WW3, which is the same reason the League of Nations went down. (I don't need your explanation for why the League went down; thank you.) The 6th king gives its power over to the 8th king when it arrives. "I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." Dan 7:11,12 "These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast." Rev 17:13 The text does not say what the 7th is that becomes the 8th, but since it comes from the seven and all nations give it their power for one hour, it's another UN-type conglomerate, one-world-order. I'm not sure what good your money will be in God's kingdom. "They will throw their money in the streets, tossing it out like worthless trash. Their silver and gold won’t save them on that day of the LORD’s anger. It will neither satisfy nor feed them, for their greed can only trip them up." Ez 7:19 Joshua
Who said anything about spending money in God's kingdom? I said retire in the two years before WW3 comes Oct 4th, 2034. You don't have Jesus coming until Nov 22, 2035. All our money will be spent by the time he comes thanks to you giving the exact dates so that we can plan ahead for such time.
Since you aren't aware, because you're new, if you look back in this forum, you will see I don't say this is when the end time will come; I say that this is the only time in the next 1000 years when the chronology of Daniel lines up with the holy days yet to be fulfilled. This only occurs once every 1000 years. Whether the end begins when I present or not is God's Will, not mine. It's not up to me. I'm just doing my job. (Am 3:7) Joshua
You say both. When I said before if you were right, then I would not have to worry about WW3 for 10 years, you said we would find out in 4 years, 2028. And here it couldn't be any clearer what you say will happen then. And anytime I or Harry say anything other than what you believe, you show your chart of the end times like you did on post #12 here.
I meant we'll find out if I'm right in 4 years, Alvy. You are right; I said it "would" happen in that video. I spoke to a friend about that very thing for some time before that. I went back and forth about whether I would say it would or may occur. I said it "would" in that video against my better judgment, just in case it does. I can't say it will or even know it will within myself. However, I said it in case it does, even though in my heart, I know I can't say for sure. I said it for just-in-case reasons. You have to understand something: What you are asking me is very complex. I know what my role in God's kingdom is, and I know what I presented is accurate. I was anointed for a very specific purpose. But I can't sit here and believe what I presented is 100% going to happen because I know I could be wrong. Which one of us can tell the future? All of these matters are in God's hands. (Ish 46:10) If you want to know the truth, I believe this (below) is the Capstone from Zech 3. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'll delete everything and live out the rest of my life remaining faithful to God because He deserves my devotion. I don't serve Him for any personal gain. But if I'm right, I just want to make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. (Mth 5:14,15) "For behold, on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven eyes, I will engrave its inscription, declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of this land in a single day." Zech 3:9 Joshua The Capstone 666: Dec 28, 2028 – Asara B’Tevet ✧ Apostasy: Sept 10, 2029 – Rosh Hashanah ✧ Walls Breached: July 6, 2033 – 9th Tammuz ✧ Temple Destroyed: Aug 5, 2033 – 10th AV ✧ Governmental Collapse: Oct 4, 2034 – Sukkot ✧ Coronation: Oct 13, 2035 – Yom Kippur ✧ God's Kingdom: Dec 28, 2035 – Hanukkah
So your interpretation is that the present tense of 'one [head] is' in verse 10, is said from the perspective of 98 CE outside of the vision that pertained to our day, but that the present tense of the beast 'is not,' of verses 8 and 11, is from the perspective of inside the vision in our day; but then why the change of perspective, and how can we tell other than reading our present reality back into the text? I am not saying that is wrong, or that we shouldn't see it that way, but just trying to find a cogent argument that would eliminate the other possibility of interpreting both tenses as applying from today's perspective. The reason for me questioning the above interpretation is - assuming no change of time perspective between verses 8 and 10 - that, if in 98 CE the 6th head 'is,' then also the whole beast carrying that head 'is not' in 98 CE, meaning, the wild beast was in its abyss stage of not existing in John's day, him seeing a head on a beast that is not. This inclines me to a position where either there is this change in time perspective between what is dealt with in verses 8 and 10 - but then why - or even that both verses should be read as taking place in the 'Lord's day,' which then means that the 6th king is what we now have, with the 7th yet to arrive, but when he does arrive, he will only remain a short while. Right, but that is a complicating factor in the text, because heads represent kings and horns also represent kings, meaning, if a particular head has one or two horns - if you apportion 10 horns among 7 heads, you end up with one or two horns per head, as the case may be - then you end up with a king [head] having one or two kings [horns] incorporated in one entity, i.e. 3 triple kings and 4 double kings, all atop a beast that is itself also a king, a triple layer of kings attached to kings attached to a king, if you get my drift - that is something I still need to grasp the implications of. Harry
Yep.... Present tense means present tense. When reading the original Greek, the context must remain congruent. That is how the psychology of communication works even today. If I'm speaking of something that is, my next statement mentioning something else that is will be taken as both being present at the same moment in time. On top of that, all of the horns of the beast John saw before the abyssing receive kingship with the 8th king. Therefore, they are all present before, during, and after the abyss. Not only that, but they were also in power before the abyssing because they hand over their power to the beast. "And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”" Rev 17:13,14 "I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." Dan 7:11,12 Joshua
I am not following you clearly here. Maybe it's that you don't know what I mean by my use of 'present'. The beast 'comes out of the sea'...he is 'present' starting at that point and remains 'present' until he goes into the abyss. So that whole time of him being 'present' during that time, he 'was'. Then he goes into the abyss. This is when he 'is not' 'present'. Then he comes out of the abyss. He is now 'present' again at that point. Then after being 'present' again for some period, he goes off into destruction. [Well, on seeing her I was greatly amazed. 7 So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present. 9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.] Are you following this part so far before I speak about the heads/kings and 98c.e./our day?
You really don't see it do you? You don't see your personal interpretations. Instead of allowing the angel to speak for himself, you choose when the angel is speaking of. So the angel is just telling you the entity is present when it's present? I could use your way of reading the text to make it say whatever I wanted. I prefer to go by the angels words, rather than interpreting. The 6th is and the beast is not... And all the horns are present. Joshua
What did I say that the angel didn't say himself? I only so far spoke about the beast here, not the heads or horns. This is what the angel said, not me: [8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction... And the inhabitants of the earth—those whose names have not been written in the scroll of life from the founding of the world—will be amazed when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present.] I said: The beast is present during the time that he 'was'. That he is not present during the time he 'is not'. That he will be present again when he comes out of the abyss. Will not be present when he goes off into destruction. Do you think what I said there agrees with what the angel said, or it is my personal interpretation?
Right, 'present' ['is' / 'is not'] from which time perspective - or, when present - 98 CE, or now? 1) in verse 8: 98 CE, or now? 2) in verse 10: 98 CE, or now? a) both in verse 8 and 10: now? b) both in verse 8 and 10: 98 CE? c) in verse 8: 98 CE, in verse 10: now? d) in verse 8: now, in verse 10: 98 CE? Which option between a) and d) do you agree with?
Both verse 8 and 10 use the present tense to describe the same beast at that point in time, which is either from the reality of 98 CE, or now - which one?
That would then mean that we today have a ruling king [the 6th head] over the earth, but one that has not yet turned into a beast, but when that sword stroke gets healed it will turn into, or rise as, a wild beast, which would sort of fit with the way things are today; but that would also mean that we should not now be waiting for a sword stroke on the system, although that eventuality is actually shaping up as we speak, namely, the next, and even worse, plandemic, economic implosion due to unrepayable debt levels, global take down of the internet, as well as looming war between US / NATO, Russia and China. Harry
You are choosing for yourself when the time periods occur instead of having them occur during the vision. You reduce the angel's words to simply saying the beast is or isn't whenever you want it to be. Through your way of reading it, I could make the beast Babylon. I could say the beast/Babylon was and is not (when it wasn't) and will be (when it is). I could make the beast and time periods anything at any time in history I wish. You can't see it because you are not allowing the angel to speak for himself. You are choosing what the entities are and when the angels is speaking of them.
When the beast goes into the abyss, the only entity remaining is the KOTN. All of the wild beast's entities are present and accounted for now in the UN. The KOTN wins the final battle, which is the one that "is" at the same time the beast "is not" (Dan 11:40). The five that fall make up the KOTS. The UN is the conglomerate beast that John "saw" that goes down for not stopping WW3, which is the same reason the League of Nations went down. The 6th king and all of the horns give their power over to the 8th king when it arrives. "I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." Dan 7:11,12 "These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast." Rev 17:13 ------- The tree, statue, and beasts of Daniel repeat every time Jerusalem is destroyed. And the little horn is Babylon being reborn each time. You are correct; we are not looking for the abyssing next; we are looking for the apostasy next, the 666. The beast in Rev 13 with the deathstroke is the UN now, and the head that had the healed wound is Babylon the Great, which is the lion's mouth that speaks boastfully in Rev 13, Dan 7 & 8, and Nebbi in Dan 4. The lion's condition in Dan 7 is the healed condition of Nebbi from Dan 4. Dan 4:33 "His hair grew long just like eagles feathers and his nails were like birds claws." Dan 7:4 "The first one was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were plucked out, Dan 4:24 "Your dwelling will be with the beasts of the field," and it was lifted up from the earth and was made to stand up on two feet like a man." Dan 4:6 "Let its heart be changed from that of a human, and let it be given the heart of a beast," and it was given the heart of a man." "And its mouth was like a lion’s mouth." Rev 13:2 "It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling." Rev 13:6 The healed deathstroke is Babylon the Great, according to Scripture... Joshua
You are jumping ahead here. The first part was to see if we agree on what it means to be present in the context of those verses. You can see for yourself that it says it 'was', 'is not', 'yet will be present'. If it will be present, that means it is not present during the time it is said is not. But when it 'was', it must have been present at that time, right? So, 'was' (present), 'is not' (not present), 'will be present' (again). Do you agree here? On your questions, the answers are not between those two choices. The timeframe spans from the time of Egypt to when Jesus comes and throws the beast into the fiery lake. Jesus is the stone that strikes the image in Daniel. That time corresponds with Jesus throwing the beast into the fiery lake. The image and the beast both represent the 8th king at the time Jesus does away with them In Matthew, Jesus speaking about the DT in the holy place, refers the reader to Daniel. There we read about the KOTN, he is the DT. He also represents the 8th king that Jesus does away with. The 42 months in Rev 13 and 11 correspond to Daniel 7:24-26 and represent the 8th king. The KFIC in Daniel 8:23-25 also represents the 8th king. For these reasons you need to compare the image in Daniel with the heads on the beast and in doing so you can see, the heads/beast time from spans from the time of Egypt to when Jesus comes and throws the beast into the fiery lake. This is where I was heading next after dealing with present/is not present.
(Re 17:10) “. . .And there are seven kings: five have fallen. . .” You are saying that the five kings that have fallen takes place in the Lords Day, during the time of the end, rather than being the five nations that had fallen prior to 98ce like the list below shows? Egypt -fallen Assyria- fallen Babylon - fallen Medo-Persia - fallen Greece - fallen Rome - the 'one that is' Anglo-America - the one that is 'to come' who must remain a short while Does the following following verse need to be applied to the 'Lords day' as well since you are applying all the other verses regarding the beast and the Harlot to the Lords day? (Re 18:24) “. . .Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.””
Alvy, do you believe the following verses are talking about the same timeframe? (Re 13:3, 8) “. . .And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. . .And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.” (Re 17:8) “. . .The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.” (Re 17:11) “. . .And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.”